How do you explain US exceptionalism over the last 75 years?

[TheDawn]

I would say that US educational competitiveness begins at the Master's degree level and PhD. Surprise, surprise this is where most foreign STEM students come in and, in STEM in particular, they represent 50 to 80% of the student bodies of our prestigious universities.
It is impossible in my opinion for the US to change its model to motivate, encourage and finance our home grown kids in sufficient numbers to fill our needs to remain competitive in the sciences. It's a given that our STEM education and jobs are filled 90%+ by 1st and 2nd generation Americans, green card holders and visa holders.

That's the same everywhere not just in the USA with Bachelor's degrees unless it's paired with practical working experience via internship otherwise when you graduate, you are no different from a high school graduate. The reason is because a Bachelor's degree only teaches the very basic level of theoretical knowledge. It's not high enough of a level to be employed for serious research work and yet it's not practical enough for jobs that require hands-on practical experience and/or skill. This is why in Germany, they have work-study arrangements starting at high school because in high school, you have already learned everything you need to hold a real job and all you need is practical work experience which the internship work arrangement would give you. But if you want real education that would prepare you for work that's really related to your field of study, you have to go for Master's degree. It's the same in all countries even in China and it has nothing to do with the quality of the university education; it's just how the university education system is structured and set up.

But of course you would know that with your unbiased view of how everything is in the West. No, once again the West is bad bad bad and China is all good; its education system is so advanced and fulfilling that its graduates are working as waiters and deliverymen.

 

[TheDawn]

https://facts.mit.edu/enrollment-statistics/

In 2022–2023, MIT students come from all 50 states, the District of Columbia, four territories, and 135 foreign countries. Women accounted for 48% of undergraduates (2,244) and 39% of graduate students (2,830). Fifty-seven percent of undergraduates (2,640) and 22% of graduate students (1,610) self-identified as members of one or more US minority groups.

And on the last table, 53% of international students are Asians.

Lol, at least I went to an ivy. Lot of things you posted just an imagination. My wife currently have a collaboration with MIT Media Lab and got students bodies composition.

Regardless of the nationalities or races, these are very smart kids, whether they stay stateside or go back is up to themselves to decide.

Ok good to know. But like I asked, where is the "stealing"??? These students came to United States out of their free will; nobody forced them to as in "forced technology transfer".

 

[mervyn]

Ok good to know. But like I asked, where is the "stealing"??? These students came to United States out of their free will; nobody forced them to as in "forced technology transfer".

MIT wraps itself as the best hard core tech school in the world myth, maybe it is, maybe it is not. It gives out full scholarships and fellowships (most of the money are from US government, some are private foundations) like cookies, certainly is more attractive than they would’ve gotten otherwise. only top 1% shall apply. Students’ registered ip, school owns half, even for a new math formula. When they travel back and share, it is IP theft and FBI raids the house as spies.

Harvard and Yale are the worst, they don’t even take asian kids, but they are not hard core tech schools anyway. Politics, law and finance, these fields are better keeping in-house.

 

[TheDawn]

I don't think I have a very strong (negative?) bias towards western countries,

On the other hand, America has perfected the science of attracting talents through sophisticated marketing, and providing high paying employment to those who come to America.

Trump was elected on a white nationalist platform. How do you think these foreign scientists felt about America then? There's a mass killing every day in America, many committed by white men upset with foreigners. How can you say foreigners are respected and cherished?

Wow that is some very positive comments right there. You obviously have never lived in America even though you claimed to have been when we discussed high-speed trains. You have no idea what's going on in America. Trump was NOT elected on a white nationalist platform. It's unfortunate white supremacist groups chose to attach themselves to Trump to give off the image and impression that Trump is all about white supremacy in order to boost up their own standing when in fact it is very far from the truth. Under Trump, minority groups especially African-Americans have benefited tremendously and have gone further than under any previous presidents including the ones under the Democratic party which is supposedly more supportive of minority welfare. Under Trump, the unemployment rate for African Americans was at record low and Trump has set up specific financial aid and funding for Black colleges and reformed the criminal justice system.

The mass killing that you are referring to target everybody in America regardless of race, ethnic background or skin colour and in fact if you look at statistics, the majority of the victims of mass killings are actually whites and the majority of the mass killing victims were killed by someone they know and take place in a domestic home. If you look at the table towards the bottom, Asians which is what you consider as "foreigners" (stereotype much?) and is the only ethnic group that you are interested in actually accounts for a small minority of all victims. WHERE do you get foreigners not being respected?

Again you have no idea what you are talking about. You perpetuate your narrow-minded negative view of how America is from your pigeonhole bias of a foreigner without ever knowing how America is.

Scientists do what scientists are asked to do. If you work in a government lab, you do what government tells you to do, or you start a business, in China, Europe or America. All the same.

I am not talking about doing work in a government lab first of all. And when you start a business in a country with Western democracy especially, you are not expected to have political allegiance or follow some sort of directives by the political party in office. Maybe this is the reason why businesses and academic talents from all around the world flock to democratic countries in the west and especially the USA? LOL

 

[newwurldmn]

Harvard and Yale are the worst, they don’t even take asian kids, but they are not hard core tech schools anyway. Politics, law and finance, these fields are better keeping in-house.

I assume this is sarcastic or your information is from 1950.

 

[mervyn]

I assume this is sarcastic or your information is from 1950.

Oh is it? Right, current Boston mayor is an asian lady from Harvard Law, another community organizer. Isn’t DeSantis Harvard law too? Should we put these two in a cage fight?

But I guess my wife would put me in the dog house and no beer, because she went to Harvard.

 

[newwurldmn]

Oh is it? Right, current Boston mayor is an asian lady from Harvard Law, another community organizer. Isn’t DeSantis Harvard law too? Should we put these two in a cage fight?

But I guess my wife would put me in the dog house and no beer, because she went to Harvard.

you said Harvard doesn’t take Asian kids. 25percent of Harvard is Asian. And that number isnt higher only because of reverse discrimination.

not sure

 

[mervyn]

you said Harvard doesn’t take Asian kids. 25percent of Harvard is Asian. And that number isnt higher only because of reverse discrimination.

not sure

the acceptance rate for the Asian kids are the lowest among all groups, hence the lawsuit.

 

[newwurldmn]

the acceptance rate for the Asian kids are the lowest among all groups, hence the lawsuit.

same at MIT. When I applied (didn’t get in) they wrote on the application: “Asians are not considered minorities”

what does this have to do with desantis and the current Boston mayor and your wife?

 

[VicBee]

That's why I laugh when Whites complain about reverse discrimination when Blacks are admitted to colleges with lower scores. The fact is, if there was no discrimination, colleges would be 95% Asian and Indians.