High-Frequency Trading Firm Pays $64.7 Million in Record Spoofing Penalty

[ph1l]

As an aside, that Groot bit I saw in the thread earlier, where I saw his nick but no text, was a true glitch. It is not there anymore. So he still has me on total block.

Worst feature ever, mostly.

Browse without logging in, and I think you would be able to see all posts. This practice might not be as convenient, but it stops me from posting unless I really want to. And it keeps ET members from thinking I'm a complete idiot -- most of the time.

 

[Overnight]

Browse without logging in, and I think you would be able to see all posts. This practice might not be as convenient, but it stops me from posting unless I really want to. And it keeps ET members from thinking I'm a complete idiot -- most of the time.

Yes, I know the trick. But while logged in, Groot's nick showed up in this thread. It is gone again. Alas, was hoping. :-( Sux for him, he misses so much funny (and real) by ignoring me.

 

[qlai]

HFTs are not creating inefficiency. They are creating chaos. Are you suggesting here that, because there's a possibility to MAYBE be on the right side of a flash crash, we should allow these cowboys to fake liquidity in order to coerce the market into a making a mistake? That's not inefficiency my friend, that's criminal.

I'm suggesting that the whole HFT issue is mostly scapegoating. The idea that a guy trading from basement caused the Flash Crash is ridiculous to me. What kind of markets do we have if that's true!? Why is it so fragile? I think I know - risk transfer from pros to individuals with the government providing the hedge.

As far as creating inefficiencies, isn't it how big boys operate? Upgrades, downgrades, whisper numbers, rumors, leaks ... All manufactured to create inefficiencies (opportunities). I don't think I am telling you anything you don't already know.

So why are the HFTs in the spotlight? Because they are beating the pros at their game. They are outsiders encroaching on their turf. I don't believe for a second this has anything to do with retail trader, or buy side, or market stability, or fairness. Same old turf wars. My two cents.

 

[nooby_mcnoob]

I'm suggesting that the whole HFT issue is mostly scapegoating. The idea that a guy trading from basement caused the Flash Crash is ridiculous to me. What kind of markets do we have if that's true!? Why is it so fragile? I think I know - risk transfer from pros to individuals with the government providing the hedge.

As far as creating inefficiencies, isn't it how big boys operate? Upgrades, downgrades, whisper numbers, rumors, leaks ... All manufactured to create inefficiencies (opportunities). I don't think I am telling you anything you don't already know.

So why are the HFTs in the spotlight? Because they are beating the pros at their game. They are outsiders encroaching on their turf. I don't believe for a second this has anything to do with retail trader, or buy side, or market stability, or fairness. Same old turf wars. My two cents.

I agree with both sides that you don't want to encourage fake volume, look at the bitcoin bullshit. But I also think this level of dedicated focus means someone important got fucked. Also they can't go after the real big criminals.

 

[Sig]

As an aside, that Groot bit I saw in the thread earlier, where I saw his nick but no text, was a true glitch. It is not there anymore. So he still has me on total block.

Worst feature ever, mostly.

And here I thought he was playing favorites because I didn't see him. That's OK, his current persona is getting a bit long in the tooth for him, I think we're due for iteration number 7 or 8 here pretty soon. If you're (un)lucky he may not block you right away so as to be sneaky about his spawning as someone new.

 

[bone]

Why is it that it is ONLY the CME who is pinching these malefactors? Why aren't the various stock exchanges and other futures exchanges like ICE coming down on these jagoffs?

 

[RedDuke]

Why is it that it is ONLY the CME who is pinching these malefactors? Why aren't the various stock exchanges and other futures exchanges like ICE coming down on these jagoffs?

Interesting point. Higher ethical standards???

 

[qlai]

Why aren't the various stock exchanges

CME only started recently. SEC has done it for much longer. Also, it's my understanding that equities brokers are required to monitor for this activity (there is actually a recent post about Lime being fined for this), but I don't know if FCMs are required to do the same. My guess is it's a bit hard to prove (actually it was documented to be hard to prove) because it's close to market making. For example, let's say that I bid 1000 contacts and offer 1000 contacts. Then I reduce the OfferSize to 100, then reduce the BidSize to 100 after 20 milliseconds. For that 20 ms, was I spoofing the market by creating 10:1 imbalance? Is it my fault that below algos are legal?

 

[bone]

CME only started recently.

I've seen CME cases being referred to the CFTC going back to 2011. Nothing from ICE, though.

 

[Banjo]

U.S. CFTC orders Wells Fargo Bank to pay $14 million over alleged violations

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wells-fargo-bank-cftc/u-s-cftc-orders-wells-fargo-bank-to-pay-14-million-over-alleged-violations-idUSKBN1XI227?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+reuters/businessNews+(Business+News)