High-Frequency Trading Firm Pays $64.7 Million in Record Spoofing Penalty
- Thread starter Banjo
- Start date
Yet another case where prison sentences should be issued instead of fines.
If this went bad another flash crash could've been cooked up. 64 million is not enough. Especially considering they most likely made significantly more than this total. Locking these people up is the only way we make sure the message is clear.
If this went bad another flash crash could've been cooked up. 64 million is not enough. Especially considering they most likely made significantly more than this total. Locking these people up is the only way we make sure the message is clear.
Agreed. This whole "fine" thing does not deter these people from trying it again. It only emboldens them to try to do it sneakier the next time.
That is something I don't get. Does the prosecutor not have enough evidence? Why always settle? Why no warrants to get as much evidence from the firm as possible? Surely there were not just 3 guys who spoofed a bit for 1 year and then it all ended. What is going on with financial crime in America? Or are they all playing golf together on weekends?
A sign of life from Groot on threads I view, I must not be on total block anymore. Wow. These are salad days!
I'm thinking that there must be lots of people here that benefit form the noise created by all these manipulations. We don't want efficient markets do we? Just to stir things up
I am perfectly fine to live with manipulators.
we need to know how to trade
markets with manipulators and
markets without manipulators.
Of course, we traders can't tell the difference.
It doesn't mean it is easy to earn money from
markets without manipulators.
In fact, it is easy to earn money from markets with manipulators (esp manipulated stocks).
This is my opinion, but these indexes and a lot of equities do not trade like markets anymore. There are human elements to a market that make something a market. When it's high speed robots trading against other high speed robots, not only is edge for the regular guy going away faster, but its no longer tracking the value of the thing. Why do you think value investing sticks to deeply undervalued stocks? Simply because with less analyst and news coverage there is significant edge in trading something the HFTs and big banks aren't looking at.
Take for example oil futures. There is a market there. Sure there is likely HFT arbitrage, but it's significantly less. There's not enough ability for the HFTs to manipulate it because there are other actors with just as much capital. Hedge desks from giant oil companies for example.
But when you look at the ES, YM, NQ, etc it's just noise. There's very little tradeable there because the indexes aren't tracking the market at large. Speculators serve an important purpose, but HFTs are not speculating. They're bouncing trades back in forth between each other, front running, and manipulating markets. Not in the "corner the silver market" manipulation. But in a "technologically lock everyone out of profit" sense. Sure, I probably pissed off people who think they've figured out the S&P but the probability of them keeping profits in those "markets" is so astronomically low as a retail they're just dunning kruger-ing themselves into believing they can predict the future. Edge is in where no one is looking. The index futures are basically horse races.
This is the same argument penny stock gamblers use. it doesn't hold a whole lot of water.
