GOP supports full Amensty for illegals.

Breitbart reported that during the Republican retreat 80% of the R members of Congress were against bring amnesty up this year.

Amen to those guys..

How the hell could he and Ryan be pushing an idea that would make 10 to 30 percent of the base stay home in disgust.
Is he really a Republican leader? What the hell. Its almost like he is a plant. He could have crushed obamacare by approving the budget in parts... what does he do..
he says ryan in there to sell us out. then they bring amnesty up... Really?

thanks to Sessions and Cruz and Coulter and even writers like Coulter, Buchanon and even (to my surprise) Kristol for getting the critque going. Maybe Kristol is going to bet back on the right team.


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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/01/31/Did-Showdown-Kill-Boehners-Immigration-Dreams


Immigration is the zombie of political issues--even when it is dead, it is still alive. The combination of the Democratic Party, business interests, and a GOP operative class yearning for its promise of improved standing with Hispanic voters means that you can never really count it out.
That said, it is hard to imagine Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) moving forward after yesterday's closed-door showdown. According to estimates from those who were in the room--both in favor of moving forward and against--the dozens of GOP lawmakers who spoke were at least 80-20 against bringing a bill to the floor this year.
 
But Scat my boy, where would you go? All the other industrialized countries, well maybe not Qatar, (oops, it's a monarchy!) are more "commie socialist" than the good ole U.S.A. :D

If money wasn't an object, places like Luxembourg, Switzerland, Panama, Montenegro, just for starters. Hell, even Russia would be a great place to go as long as money was no object. If you know how to navigate the political system, it could be an excellent place.
 
You know, AAA, a lot of what you say makes sense. And then along comes a post where you just throw out a bunch of worthless garbage and hope it sticks. The above nonsense is a perfect example.

If you're going to attack me, you'd better bring more than a bad attitude.

This is from the Libertarian Party platform:

"3.4 Free Trade and Migration

We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a credible threat to security, health or property."
http://www.lp.org/platform

And from a policy paper on immigration at the same website:

Immigration Law Should Reflect Our Dynamic Labor Market
By Daniel T. Griswold
Among its many virtues, America is a nation where laws are generally reasonable, respected and impartially enforced. A glaring exception is immigration.

Today an estimated 12 million people live in the U.S. without authorization, 1.6 million in Texas alone, and that number grows every year. Many Americans understandably want the rule of law restored to a system where law-breaking has become the norm.

The fundamental choice before us is whether we redouble our efforts to enforce existing immigration law, whatever the cost, or whether we change the law to match the reality of a dynamic society and labor market.

Low-skilled immigrants cross the Mexican border illegally or overstay their visas for a simple reason: There are jobs waiting here for them to fill, especially in Texas and other, faster growing states. Each year our economy creates hundreds of thousands of net new jobs — in such sectors as retail, cleaning, food preparation, construction and tourism — that require only short-term, on-the-job training.

At the same time, the supply of Americans who have traditionally filled many of those jobs — those without a high school diploma — continues to shrink. Their numbers have declined by 4.6 million in the past decade, as the typical American worker becomes older and better educated.

Yet our system offers no legal channel for anywhere near a sufficient number of peaceful, hardworking immigrants to legally enter the United States even temporarily to fill this growing gap. The predictable result is illegal immigration.

In response, we can spend billions more to beef up border patrols. We can erect hundreds of miles of ugly fence slicing through private property along the Rio Grande. We can raid more discount stores and chicken-processing plants from coast to coast. We can require all Americans to carry a national ID card and seek approval from a government computer before starting a new job.

Or we can change our immigration law to more closely conform to how millions of normal people actually live.

Crossing an international border to support your family and pursue dreams of a better life is not an inherently criminal act like rape or robbery. If it were, then most of us descend from criminals. As the people of Texas know well, the large majority of illegal immigrants are not bad people. They are people who value family, faith and hard work trying to live within a bad system.

When large numbers of otherwise decent people routinely violate a law, the law itself is probably the problem. To argue that illegal immigration is bad merely because it is illegal avoids the threshold question of whether we should prohibit this kind of immigration in the first place.

We've faced this choice on immigration before. In the early 1950s, federal agents were making a million arrests a year along the Mexican border. In response, Congress ramped up enforcement, but it also dramatically increased the number of visas available through the Bracero guest worker program. As a result, apprehensions at the border dropped 95 percent. By changing the law, we transformed an illegal inflow of workers into a legal flow.

For those workers already in the United States illegally, we can avoid "amnesty" and still offer a pathway out of the underground economy. Newly legalized workers can be assessed fines and back taxes and serve probation befitting the misdemeanor they've committed. They can be required to take their place at the back of the line should they eventually apply for permanent residency.

The fatal flaw of the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act was not that it offered legal status to workers already here but that it made no provision for future workers to enter legally.

Immigration is not the only area of American life where a misguided law has collided with reality. In the 1920s and '30s, Prohibition turned millions of otherwise law-abiding Americans into lawbreakers and spawned an underworld of moon-shining, boot-legging and related criminal activity. (Sound familiar?) We eventually made the right choice to tax and regulate alcohol rather than prohibit it.

In the 19th century, America's frontier was settled largely by illegal squatters. In his influential book on property rights, The Mystery of Capital, economist Hernando de Soto describes how these so-called extralegals began to farm, mine and otherwise improve land to which they did not have strict legal title. After failed attempts by the authorities to destroy their cabins and evict them, federal and state officials finally recognized reality, changed the laws, declared amnesty and issued legal documents conferring title to the land the settlers had improved.

As Mr. de Soto wisely concluded: "The law must be compatible with how people actually arrange their lives." That must be a guiding principle when Congress returns to the important task of fixing our immigration laws.

------
Daniel Griswold the is director of the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies
 
You know, AAA, a lot of what you say makes sense. And then along comes a post where you just throw out a bunch of worthless garbage and hope it sticks. The above nonsense is a perfect example.

Now you may very well agree with the Libertarian Party position on open borders. Don't accuse me of posting nonsense however when I summarized the offical libertarian policy.

The policy is what is nonsense. Are we also supposed to let the continent of africa migrate here in search of a better life? On what principle could we exclude them if we are going to let in most of mexico?

The typical answer is that libertarians would also repeal all of our welfare laws, making it much less desirable for people to come here illegally. Good luck with that. We are going to hurt American citizens, many of whom paid into those programs through taxes, to reationalize an idiotic immigration polciy? I doubt it.

I don't disagree with the entire Libertarian platform, but I have to live in the real world, which a lot of their policy makers seem to have little connection to.
 
Now you may very well agree with the Libertarian Party position on open borders. Don't accuse me of posting nonsense however when I summarized the offical libertarian policy.

The policy is what is nonsense. Are we also supposed to let the continent of africa migrate here in search of a better life? On what principle could we exclude them if we are going to let in most of mexico?

The typical answer is that libertarians would also repeal all of our welfare laws, making it much less desirable for people to come here illegally. Good luck with that. We are going to hurt American citizens, many of whom paid into those programs through taxes, to reationalize an idiotic immigration polciy? I doubt it.

I don't disagree with the entire Libertarian platform, but I have to live in the real world, which a lot of their policy makers seem to have little connection to.

So you are defining what is real/possible and what is not? Just because a policy is right - and a long shot in the current political climate - doesn't mean you should instead focus on what is wrong simply because it is hard work to make it right.

Maybe a refresher on the Libertarian thoughts on Immigration is in order:

http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration
 
my 2 cents. I'm with AAA on this issue. I try to avoid labeling myself but without a doubt i most closely align with libertarians (compared to reps or dems), however i fully disagree with their position on immigration as stated in that paper.

We are at a point where our economy is near stagnant, the % of the pop with jobs has and continues to decline, and high, sustained numbers on govt assistance. yet we have millions of illegal immigrants living and/or working here . that just doesn't make sense. And the soft amnesty 'pathway to citizenship' + open borders that they propose as practical already has and will continue to have consequences for the rest of us. I see the whole idea of open borders as naive, at best, and there is zero upside in allowing mexicans (or anyone else) to invade.
 
So you are defining what is real/possible and what is not? Just because a policy is right - and a long shot in the current political climate - doesn't mean you should instead focus on what is wrong simply because it is hard work to make it right.

Maybe a refresher on the Libertarian thoughts on Immigration is in order:

http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration

I don't think the policy on immigration is right.

I deal in the real world. I have to make judgments about what is possible and what is not. I know the welfare state is not going to be just repealed overnight or in our lifetimes. An immigration policy that assumes it will be is foolish.

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear you explain what part of my initial post was "nonsense."

ps. I don't need a refresher when I just quoted the policy paper. Stripped to essentials, the Libertarian policy is that anyone who wants to come here to work should be able to. That's just great for businesses looking to hire people at slave wages and rich people who need lots of maids and gardeners. I don't really see how it helps the rest of us who have to pay the social costs of all these poor immigrants.
 
One thing is for sure. The dems have their "game" together, and stick together no matter what. The repubs are imploding. I'm Libertarian, and a small minority... Any way we cut it, the free America we knew is in one hell of a mess, and I don't see a solution.

My Italian Grandfather came here LEGALLY in the 1920's through Ellis Island, and worked 16 hour days. I wish I could ask him what he'd think of giving amnesty to those here illegally... I'm somewhat torn on the whole thing. I don't have it in me to suggest throwing out men, women, and kids. However, I will note that if a person is found to be an illegal alien in Mexico, they are jailed, then deported...
 
I don't think the policy on immigration is right.

I deal in the real world. I have to make judgments about what is possible and what is not. I know the welfare state is not going to be just repealed overnight or in our lifetimes. An immigration policy that assumes it will be is foolish.

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear you explain what part of my initial post was "nonsense."

ps. I don't need a refresher when I just quoted the policy paper. Stripped to essentials, the Libertarian policy is that anyone who wants to come here to work should be able to. That's just great for businesses looking to hire people at slave wages and rich people who need lots of maids and gardeners. I don't really see how it helps the rest of us who have to pay the social costs of all these poor immigrants.

It's nonsense when you quote one part of what Libertarians believe in, but conveniently leave out the other parts in order to make your argument seem sound.

From the link above I quoted:

we can avoid "amnesty" and still offer a pathway out of the underground economy. Newly legalized workers can be assessed fines and back taxes and serve probation befitting the misdemeanor they've committed. They can be required to take their place at the back of the line should they eventually apply for permanent residency.

Additionally, when you include other aspects of the Libertarian platform (like the removal of the welfare state) then the platform as a whole makes sense. When you just analyze a piece of someone's argument, it frequently does not pass the smell test. That's why people who want to discredit an idea do it that way.
 
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