Germany must be forced out of the Euro Monetary Union.

[sheda]

The notion that Greece is right now acting like the zone comes first is a joke that brings tears to my eyes.

You will be hard pressed to find another country that would accept so many crappy conditions to stay in and repay its debts, but hey don't ever give appreciation for effort where it is due

 

[Vincent S. Ashmore]

If this much hand wringing is necessary just to figure out how to make the EZ work (through duct tape and twine no less) then maybe that's telling you it's a broken model that just ain't gonna work. Greece, Portugal, Spain, and Italy are simply canaries here.

This model has experienced itself. We should not blame anyone. The question is what's next?

 

[zdreg]

The Germans are still thinking in term of obsolescent economics and monetary policy -- policies that work well for them at the moment, but not for some of the other EU countries.. That's why they must leave the Union.

when you are on the left success must always be punished.

 

[Tsing Tao]

There wasn't anybody that was confused. Other than you piezoe.

Everybody understands that a eurobond is just like a US treasury and obligates the whole country, or all the countries in the case of a eurozone.

What is being proposed in the most absurd proposal i've ever seen is that Greece should be able to independently issue bonds that Germany and the rest of the countries would be liable for.

There literally is nobody on earth that is dumb enough to go with that proposal. Especially not the Germans.

I was going to jump in on some of this stuff Piezoe is spouting, but I see you've got his number quite easily. Good hunting, mate. And good post.

 

[piezoe]

This model has experienced itself. We should not blame anyone. The question is what's next?

I agree with this. The EMU was am experiment. The participants had high hopes it would work, and it looked good on paper. It has proved somewhat flawed. As you say, there is no one to blame, and the question really is, "what's next?".

 

[piezoe]

Of course I have no more information than the rest of you, But as a keynesian I want to go on record as saying that resigned Greek Finance minister Yanis Varoufakis was right. I expect the the recession in Greece to continue and worsen. Merkel seems to understand what the problem is, but schnable, who she is politically allied with, has other ideas. Greece cheated to get in to the EMU --thank you Goldman Sachs. Schauble wants to punish them for that. Can't say it isn't deserved/

 

[Sotnis]

Of course I have no more information than the rest of you, But as a keynesian I want to go on record as saying that resigned Greek Finance minister Yanis Varoufakis was right. I expect the the recession in Greece to continue and worsen. Merkel seems to understand what the problem is, but schnable, who she is politically allied with, has other ideas. Greece cheated to get in to the EMU --thank you Goldman Sachs. Schauble wants to punish them for that. Can't say it isn't deserved/

Keynesian economics has nothing in common with science and the outside world. More similar to the caloric theory. Simply no axiomatic.

 

[volpunter]

There won't be a fiscal union. Not with Germany inside the EMU. Lol, maybe that is why the thread title should come to fruition.

If all Eurozone members did their part to contribute to meeting fiscal guidelines and worked on managing their debt more prudently then the euro would be stronger and Germany would not, as some claim, enjoy a "cheap" Euro. Those that do not want to participate, such as Greece has refused to do its part so far, should be kicked out, or, if a majority in the EMU chooses to live off 1-2 strong members then possibly the strong members may be either forced out or leave on their own.

But one thing that will never ever happen is that Germans or Scandinavians or some of the hard working Baltic Countries keep on financing lazy and abusive member states. At least not to the tune of what a fiscal union would entail with full-throttle transfer payments. Whatever you clothe the emperor in, whether it be called a Euro bond or what have you, there is no way Germany will ever agree to. If France even for one second believed of such possibility then they should learn from Cameron who badly miscalculated Germans and was forced to back off.

This we can agree on. However do not be too surprise to see support for full monetary integration growing among the PIGS, France, and the international community. Time will show, I believe, that without a common bond, the ECB does not really have the proper tools it needs to effectively respond to recessionary forces. What is killing Greece are high interest payments, which have the bad effect of making it too expensive to spend the kind of money they need to spend internally to pull their economy out of recession. You can see, in Greece, all the classic signs of economic retrenchment that occurs under an austerity program in a country whose debt has grown too large to be readily manageable. Insufficient help from the government and central bank (the ECB in this case) is not forthcoming, because the rules are set against what is needed.

 

[volpunter]

I have only made it so far in this thread. I bet you were shocked at reading responses to this very post of yours. Yes, not everyone looks at facts and takes them as such. There are people with a vested interest at nuking Germany and the very same people look for a German fault in every mishap under the sun. I am excited to read ahead now...I am sure its gonna be funny with Sheda and TsingTao in the middle of the pack...

Why would anyone want to kick out Germany? Germany is what's holding the union together. Without Germany, the Euro would crash because the eurozone's main economic engine would disappear


http://tradingslugger.com/2015/07/21/predicting-the-news-is-a-terrible-way-to-trade/

 

[Tsing Tao]

Of course I have no more information than the rest of you, But as a keynesian I want to go on record as saying that resigned Greek Finance minister Yanis Varoufakis was right. I expect the the recession in Greece to continue and worsen. Merkel seems to understand what the problem is, but schnable, who she is politically allied with, has other ideas. Greece cheated to get in to the EMU --thank you Goldman Sachs. Schauble wants to punish them for that. Can't say it isn't deserved/

Can't argue with any of this, except your implied solution. I know you think Greece should spend it's way out of the funk it's currently in, but the one thing that I've always agreed with volpunter on is that the Greeks are in this situation because of the reckless spending, not in spite of it.

Greeks need serious reforms, or else they need their own currency to print and inflate away all the debt.