gays

[olias]

Quote from unretired:

Not regarding the simple truth of this issue.
I understand you have your opinion on the issue.
I accept that.

I care about people too much to watch death overtake them without making an effort to help.
That is my opinion and stance and I have stated it exactly as I see it.

People remain free to choose.

A very dear friend of mine, as a child, was satanically ritually abused.
In his late teens he fell into the homosexual lifestyle.

Both critical events are related and both messed him up a lot.

He contracted HIV


I dearly loved this friend ... and continue to miss him.

I'm sorry to hear that. But I gotta say, it seems like you're saying your friend 'turned' gay because of his early abuse. Maybe he did. Maybe he was confused. Or maybe he was gay. I can't really debate that, we'll never know but I think it's highly possible that your friend was gay.

...and it seems that you're saying that 'gay is evil' because you can get HIV and die. My response, straight people can get HIV also. If they use protection, or if the cure for HIV is discovered, are you now going to be ok with gays? I think we both know the answer is 'no'

 

[olias]

Quote from maxpi:

Mom's fav was younger bro...

Brain dead? You want me to encourage people into a lifestyle that stretches their ass gasket until they can't hold it, forwards a disease ridden culture, etc... some have concluded that one has to suspend reason to be Liberal, I agree with that entirely...

Some want us to suspend reason [Ex: the "queer is ok crowd"], others want us to jump to stupid conclusions [Ex: the "war on drugs is good" crowd], I'll not go with your lines of thinking if you don't mind, thanks for your input of course...

I'm don't think I'm 'encouraging' the lifestyle. I just accept it.

Are you saying you 'discourage' people to be gay? How many people do you think you'll be successful with? (point I'm trying to make is that being gay is not a choice. Whether I encourage or discourage it, it's not going to change anyone)

Why are you so concerned about everyone's ass gasket as opposed to other types of injury that occur from other activities? Does it bother you less that people die playing professional football or sky-diving? Or get injured or killed boxing?

 

[unretired]

Quote from olias:

I'm sorry to hear that. But I gotta say, it seems like you're saying your friend 'turned' gay because of his early abuse. Maybe he did. Maybe he was confused. Or maybe he was gay. I can't really debate that, we'll never know but I think it's highly possible that your friend was gay.

...and it seems that you're saying that 'gay is evil' because you can get HIV and die. My response, straight people can get HIV also. If they use protection, or if the cure for HIV is discovered, are you now going to be ok with gays? I think we both know the answer is 'no'

He was a homosexual who eventually overcame the sick behavior.
However not without first contracting a deadly disease.

The disease is just a fruit of the actions of homosexual behavior ... that fruit also releases those
deadly ills into a promiscuous society.

These simple facts were written down as prophetic warnings almost 2000 years ago by the Apostle Paul.

Pretty clear warnings, pretty clear evidence of what happens when those warnings are not heeded.

The bummer is that people die. Caring about people dictates
that truth about the issue be made clear. Hence my previous postings.


*******************************



For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections ... with lust for one another ...
committing shameful acts ... and suffering in their own bodies ...
inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing ... which was fitting retribution.

... since they did not see fit to acknowledge God ...
God gave them over to a base and condemned mind to do things not proper or decent but loathsome,

Until they were filled ... with every kind of unrighteousness, iniquity, ... hating God, full of insolence, arrogance, [and] boasting; inventors of new
forms of evil, ... without understanding, conscienceless and faithless, heartless and loveless [and] merciless.

Though they are fully aware of God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve to die,
they not only do them themselves but approve and applaud others who practice them. [/B]

 

[olias]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

There is an initial thought. There is something, somewhere in their life usually when they are young where there was a male presence that they wanted to be close with (usually a father) The father then leaves (physically or emotionally) and the kid is missing that father and thinking about him all the time. So as a child, when his thoughts are on a male presence that is not there(his father), he gets excited when some strange male presence comes along(which could be a kid at school, teacher, or whatever). As these kids get older and their bodies start to recognize sex, their focus on these male figures at the same time can confuse them and then they are gay. Not quite a conscious choice,but the thoughts that the child had focused on led them to that. (this is not the only way it happens, just one of many ways)

Do you have any evidence to back this up? You speak as if this is scientific fact, which it clearly is not and doesn't even hold up anecdotally.

Now add into the mix liberals telling these kids that its ok if men love men and women love women and its almost leading those kids to the path of homosexuality.

More evidence that it is a choice is to talk to some homosexuals and asked them if they or anyone they know has ever "flipped" a straight guy. So many of them will say yes. So you cant tell me that the straight guy didnt choose to be homosexual.

[/QUOTE]

There might be stories like that, but poll as large a sample of straight guys as you can find, and see how many would consider 'flipping'. LOL Most guys wouldn't so much as kiss another dude, let alone go any further, let alone 'flip'. What you most likely have is gay dudes finally giving in.

 

[olias]

Quote from unretired:



Though they are fully aware of God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve to die,
they not only do them themselves but approve and applaud others who practice them. [/B]

This is another problem....we're not going to get anywhere in our discussion if the Bible is referred to as the definitive answer. What gives the Bible any more authority than the Koran or any other religious book? At the end of the day you are taking someone's word 'What God said'...'what God wants'. Apologies but I want to take God out of the argument, because even if he exists we have no way of 'knowing' what he said when he supposedly 'spoke to people' back in the day.

 

[olias]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

No, I'm not homo,nor bi-sexual. I just understand the human mind. Do you believe pedophiles are born that way? Or do they first entertain the thought of sex with kids? What about people that have sex with animals? Are they born that way too?

This could get us off into a side debate, but I'm way more inclined to think the pedophiles are not born that way, but get twisted in developement. Let me go further, even if the science indicated that pedophiles were born that way I wouldn't defend the practice of it based on the defense 'they are born that way'. With pedophilia you have a definite victim there. They might have the proclivity, but they are just going to have to control themselves from acting on it.

but with gays, you are talking about 2 consenting adults, at least for the sake of this argument.

 

[Gabfly1]

I bet god can't wait to be united with a selfish bigot like peil. They'll have so much to talk about in heaven, and have a good laugh about the goofiness of accepting other people and the hilarity of health care reform. Oh, you'll have such fun! You'll romp on the clouds and use them for pillow fights.

 

[unretired]

Quote from olias:

This is another problem....we're not going to get anywhere in our discussion if the Bible is referred to as the definitive answer. What gives the Bible any more authority than the Koran or any other religious book? At the end of the day you are taking someone's word 'What God said'...'what God wants'. Apologies but I want to take God out of the argument, because even if he exists we have no way of 'knowing' what he said when he supposedly 'spoke to people' back in the day.

I understand your skepticism on my reference.
And I appreciate your respectful approach.

It is hard to separate spiritual principles and precept of right and wrong from these arenas.

I view them like the laws of gravity.
I view the issues of sowing and reaping very much in that light.

Not by judging or condemning ... but observing a law of "order" at work that is inviolable.

From the outside it might appear to be judgment or terse loveless
condemnation; but that isn't my heart at all.

People are free to make decisions as they please and reap the consequences of so doing.
If their decision brings harm to others there are laws in society to address that.
If their decisions bring harm to others or society and are opposite of design order and there
are not protective laws by said society then they reap accordingly by laws of order and design.

You see ... for me it is like seeing a car cradling over a cliff ...
the driver must not lean forward or
gravity will take hold of the situation and the driver will die.

The driver must exit the car immediately and carefully.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from olias:

This could get us off into a side debate, but I'm way more inclined to think the pedophiles are not born that way, but get twisted in developement. Let me go further, even if the science indicated that pedophiles were born that way I wouldn't defend the practice of it based on the defense 'they are born that way'. With pedophilia you have a definite victim there. They might have the proclivity, but they are just going to have to control themselves from acting on it.

but with gays, you are talking about 2 consenting adults, at least for the sake of this argument.

Definitely there is a cultural factor. The fathers of our own civilization practiced pedophilia and homosexuality regularly and openly, apparently without trauma to either party. It was a cultural "norm".

 

[unretired]

Quote from Gabfly1:

I bet god can't wait to be united with a selfish bigot like peil. They'll have so much to talk about in heaven, and have a good laugh about the goofiness of accepting other people and the hilarity of health care reform. Oh, you'll have such fun!

Gabfly1 ... you are funny. I appreciate that you continually hold to your views.

Accepting and loving people IS what it is all about.
I don't know Peil but tend to agree and lean with his views;
however you have stated with such clarity ... what is the real issue.

All of our goofiness of accepting other people.

What that looks like working is different for different people

One thing for sure it is a life struggle and growth to really love people and to speak the truth in love
... yes ... even if it hurts their feelings ... yes ... even if they hate you for it
... harder yet ... to stay humble and broken and remain truly caring and selfless under those circumstances.

Religion makes that nearly impossible.
Being spiritual and loving ... well ... makes it possible ... but people must
really care and be willing to suffer rejection and abuse
to love in the face of adversity.

Thanks again for your response.