gays

[olias]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Or sell it to the homosexuals, then put a border fence around it so they cant get out.

I used to be uncomfortable with gay people too....when I was about 14. As I got older and though about it, and have developed friendships with many great ( and I mean outstanding) gay people I now have no problem with it whatsoever. I hope you come to the same realization some day. What is the crime? That they don't reproduce? I'm may not have kids either, am I just as guilty? I wouldn't have respect for someone who tells me 'it's wrong because someone else told me it's wrong...'. Even for a religious man, did God say it's wrong? Did Jesus say it's wrong? Did Buddha say it's wrong? You can't tell me that they choose to be this way. Who the hell would choose to go against their natural, possibly strongest natural instinct only to be scorned by society?

I'm not trying to act holier than though, I just like to debate

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from olias:

I used to be uncomfortable with gay people too....when I was about 14. As I got older and though about it, and have developed friendships with many great ( and I mean outstanding) gay people I now have no problem with it whatsoever. I hope you come to the same realization some day. What is the crime? That they don't reproduce? I'm may not have kids either, am I just as guilty? I wouldn't have respect for someone who tells me 'it's wrong because someone else told me it's wrong...'. Even for a religious man, did God say it's wrong? Did Jesus say it's wrong? Did Buddha say it's wrong? You can't tell me that they choose to be this way. Who the hell would choose to go against their natural, possibly strongest natural instinct only to be scorned by society?

I'm not trying to act holier than though, I just like to debate

God did say it was wrong. (leviticu 20:13) I dont disagree with you that some homosexuals are nice friendly people. But that said, would you be ok with child molestation if you had lots of friends that were nice and friendly and funny and helped you when you needed help?

The way I believe homosexuals "choose" to be homosexuals is that something happens when they are young. Sometimes it has to do with looking for acceptance from a male father figure. Then later on when sex comes to mind, they start to entertain thoughts of what it would be like to sleep with same sex people. At first they are just thoughts and they probably think its gross (just like the way 5 year old boys think kissing girls is gross or 5 year old girls think kissing boys is gross) Anyway...they keep entertaining those thoughts until it becomes part of who they are. Then they are officially homosexual. Its natural that we are attracted to the opposite sex and their is even evidence in this in the homosexual community. Why do homosexual men act feminine? I mean if they like sex with men, then shouldnt they act masculine to attract other gays? Same with women...why do they dress and try to look like boys if they are trying to attract homosexual women?

Lets look at it this way. You are a straight man, right? Now..sexuality is something you are born with then technically you should have the exact same tastes as a homosexual woman because you both like women. But homosexual women go for women that dress and look like men. Are you attracted to women that look like that? No of course not. The homosexual have in their nature to want to be with the opposite sex, but their perversion in their mind makes them want to be with the same sex. What basically causes homosexuality is the same thing that causes some people to only want to have sex with children, or some people who like to have sex with animals, or some people who only like to have sex with people who dress in leather and wear a mask. They entertain the thoughts in their mind and eventually want only that perversion.

Hope that clears it up for you. If not, feel free to ask more questions.

 

[StreamlineTrade]

Quote from olias:

Did God say it's wrong? Did Jesus say it's wrong? Did Buddha say it's wrong?

Yes they did.

Buddah never said it explicitly though. He just said dont hurt people. I assume shoving an erect penis where nature never intended it to go is going to hurt somewhat.

 

[olias]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

God did say it was wrong. (leviticu 20:13) I dont disagree with you that some homosexuals are nice friendly people. But that said, would you be ok with child molestation if you had lots of friends that were nice and friendly and funny and helped you when you needed help?

Well here's the problem and I guess you and I are never going to agree on this but....God didn't say anything. I don't care what the Bible says, does that make it so? How do you know that makes it so? Do you honestly believe everything in the Bible? why? because someone told you to? You were born with a brain to question things...

I mean, even when I considered myself a devout Catholic I'd look at stuff in the Old Testament and think 'that's a bunch of bullshit'. How do you 'know' that God said that? You have no more 'evidence' than I would have to say that he didn't say that. I don't think that God, if he/it exists, talks to people. I don't think I can even sit here and debate this topic with you if your whole argument is 'God said so'.

You compared the being gay to being a child molester. You just illustrated my point, which is: one is a crime, the other is not. What's the 'crime' of being gay? Why is that kind of contact 'bad' or worse than male/female contact? Don't quote God because that's not going to hold any water with anyone. On a purely logical level, why is it bad? Who gets hurt? ....

The rest of your post is pure speculation, and I'm sorry it's total bs. It's just something somebody made up but lacks any proof. Maybe you can back it up with some kind of study?

 

[olias]

Quote from StreamlineTrade:

Yes they did.

Buddah never said it explicitly though. He just said dont hurt people. I assume shoving an erect penis where nature never intended it to go is going to hurt somewhat.

LOL... my penis has been known to hurt when it goes exactly where nature intended it I guess I can't be Buddhist

 

[olias]

on a side note, doesn't it seen more logical that, if there is a God, he has never talked to anyone? Think about it, does that seem fair? The idea is that our big test in life is to believe and follow his ways, but no one I know has ever had God talk to them? why is he talking to others? Why did he talk to people so much 'back in the day?'. That's just an unfair advantage...

For similar reasons I don't believe in freakin psychics or people who claim to talk to the dead.

I'm pretty convinced we all go through life with the same lack of answers and try to put together the same puzzle....which is 'why are we here?'

 

[StreamlineTrade]

Quote from olias:

on a side note, doesn't it seen more logical that, if there is a God, he has never talked to anyone? Think about it, does that seem fair? The idea is that our big test in life is to believe and follow his ways, but no one I know has ever had God talk to them? why is he talking to others? Why did he talk to people so much 'back in the day?'. That's just an unfair advantage...

For similar reasons I don't believe in freakin psychics or people who claim to talk to the dead.

I'm pretty convinced we all go through life with the same lack of answers and try to put together the same puzzle....which is 'why are we here?'

God talks to people every day. He may not come as a burning bush, or old man with a white robe, but he does talk to us.

The Lord works in mysterious ways!

This is a fundamental concept of Christian prayer. Often prayer is just a wish list that we ask the creator for, with an 'Amen' thrown in at the end. Prayer is supposed to be a conversation, not a one way dialog of our demands. When these selfish demands are not delivered, people start to lose what little faith they had. It never occurred to them that some of these things may not have been in their best interests in the long term.

You may want to read up on Alpha for example. It's a fascinating book written by Nicky Gumbel (or similar). It has a green cover. It will answer most of these questions you are seeking answers too. It is a short, paper back book, probably costs about $10 on Amazon.

I suggest you read it before criticizing God or his wishes. It discusses how Christianity has been taken out of context, and puts Christianity into context in the modern day. It argues that Christianity as most see it, is a long, long way off to how it should be.

Fascinating whether a Christian or not.

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from olias:


You compared the being gay to being a child molester. You just illustrated my point, which is: one is a crime, the other is not. What's the 'crime' of being gay? Why is that kind of contact 'bad' or worse than male/female contact? Don't quote God because that's not going to hold any water with anyone. On a purely logical level, why is it bad? Who gets hurt? ....

Fair enough. I will not compare being gay with being a child molester then. I will compare it to what else it said in leviticus. I will compare being gay to have sex with someones brother/sister or mother/father. Do you consider that wrong? I know what you are going to say...its wrong because the kids might come out deformed...so that means that if the sister or mother has a hysterectomy then a son having sex with his mother,or a brother having sex with his sister should be ok and accepted by society. On a purely logical level,can you tell me what would be the difference between homosexual acts and incestual acts?

Being homosexual is not a crime. Committing homosexual acts is where God draws the line. (Opps...forgot, you dont want me to to use God as my defense) Ok...so you ask who gets hurt. Well for one the parents are hurt. No parent hopes for a homosexual child, i dont care what the liberals in san francisco say. So there is one group that is hurt. The other group is homosexuals themselves. They give each other HIV which affects the immune system and they end up dying from some horrible infection(not to mention it makes our healthcare costs go up because they die without paying their hospital bills) So we get hurt as a society as far as medicine is concerned. Another way homosexuals get hurt (this is just for male homosexuals as far as i know) anal sex. Doctors have said that having anal sex can destroy the lining between where the feces and the urine come out and cause a painful infection and a hole between the two walls (if I remember right, this is something that can not be repaired) So this means that when they would have to urinate, feces would come out and when they defecate, urine comes out. So thats how they hurt themselves.

So...people get hurt with homosexual acts. Thats why its bad. So now the question is, will you agree with me that its bad, or will you come up with some excuse to justify your friends lifestyle simply because he is your friend?

 

[Bakinec]

Here's my problem with homosexuals.

They claim that it's in their nature to like their own sex.

If that is so, then why do we see homo men behaving and talking like women, and the other way around with homo women?

If a homo man is attracted to other men, and he considers himself a man, then why does he need to feel like a woman? Same with lesbians.

This is absolute proof of two things:

1) It's natural feeling to them and they have problems with their own gender and need to get a sex change operation.

2) They haven't been brought up right; something happened that smacked their psychological magnetic poles around.

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from olias:

Well here's the problem and I guess you and I are never going to agree on this but....God didn't say anything. I don't care what the Bible says, does that make it so? How do you know that makes it so? Do you honestly believe everything in the Bible? why? because someone told you to? You were born with a brain to question things...

Yes I believe everything in the bible and not because someone told me to. When I was a little boy I used to believe because I was told to. As I got older and started thinking for myself, I admit that I didnt believe everything in the bible because OTHER people were telling me what to believe. (why do you believe in evolution? Because someone told you to? Or because someone told you they have evidence even though you never checked to see if that evidence was correct?)

Anyway, I thought there was a lot of questions that could not be answered in the bible because I was getting conflicting information from secular society telling me to think their way. At one point I thought the bible didnt have a leg to stand on with some of secular societies arguments. A few years ago though, I met a guy who was having an argument with a woman about everything from dinosaurs to moses parting the red sea. This man answered every question perfectly and I had no idea that the bible had answers to every secular question. I started to study the bible and the rest is history.

As for not believing that God inspired man to write the texts that are now collectively known as the bible, well I believe he did inspire man to write it. Once you start to study the bible and pray for wisdom in understanding it, you see some of the "hidden" things that the non-believers dont see whether by their own choice or just not being able to as they have to let go of their secular conflicting beliefs to see it.

You tell me that I was born with a brain to question things, but have you ever once in your life EVER questioned a scientific finding or did you just believe it because they said so or told you that they had "proof" somewhere. For instance they tell you that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago...if you ask for proof, they say the magic word "carbon dating" Then 99% of you say "oh, ok" but you never question how accurate carbon dating is over millions of years or even how it works..you just "take their word for it" Evolution is a faith just like religion.

If anything there is more evidence for God than there is for no God. In fact the world is covered in evidence for God. Life and its complexity and design proves that there is a God. I mean, unless you are trying to tell me that randomness has the intelligence to create something like an eye, or a brain. Where did it learn that? Oh wait..randomness isnt a living thinking being...it cant learn, it has no consciousness to discern between knowing if something is advantageous or not advantageous when random particles group up together to form complex lifeforms.