ES Journal Archive (2006 - 2008)

[JimmyJam]

The method that Romik is using is a variation on the Turtle Trading Method. Only, instead of looking for breakouts and piling in up to a certain limit as the position moves in his favor, he takes the turns that the market gives him and increases position size with each ensuring turn.

In a way, it's a methodology which is more in-tune with how the ES trades, anyway (65-70% chop/35-30% trend). If he were to increase the number of markets followed and allocate his trades per market up to his 2% (or 4% or whatever) maximum you would see the exact same money management as the turtles use. This is probably the only scenario such a technique should be used, however.

In this case, as with the Turtles, the money management is the edge.
***
I looked into CFD's when I first started trading, you can do very interesting things with them in terms of hedging a position in the exact same contract, as well as taking offsetting positions in different indices with similar volatility and point size (cumulative).

If you also do range and volatility studies of the contract(s) you follow, such stratagems would be ideal.

There's also a mini version of the contract which allows you to test out different strategies with money on the line, but incurring no real losses (one step better than testing strategies with a SIM).
***
All-in-all, I see nothing wrong with any of the above items, they represent another way of skinning the cat, which is what you are going to have to do any if you want to win in this extremely competitive business.

Good Trading,

JJ

 

[illiquid]

I did not realize Turtles traded intraday, nor did I know that increasing position size only on flipped losers is a variation of Turtle Trading Method. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[princessa]

seems romik's method is just opposite of turtles, since turtles trade the breakouts and romik trades intraday turns, whipsaws, intraday range. the whole mentality is different. turtles would trade infrequently, and only when the breakout occurs. romik would be in the market every day, doing multiple trades with varying position size.

nice loophole on the spread betting, romik. folks over here would probably take advantage too, if u.s. had such a thing.

 

[romik]

Quote from princessa:

seems romik's method is just opposite of turtles, since turtles trade the breakouts and romik trades intraday turns, whipsaws, intraday range. the whole mentality is different. turtles would trade infrequently, and only when the breakout occurs. romik would be in the market every day, doing multiple trades with varying position size.

nice loophole on the spread betting, romik. folks over here would probably take advantage too, if u.s. had such a thing.

yes, spread betting has been around for some time now in the UK, they will change gambling laws concerning financial sector whenever the government will see a shift in the stats.

 

[JimmyJam]

Quote from illiquid:

I did not realize Turtles traded intraday, nor did I know that increasing position size only on flipped losers is a variation of Turtle Trading Method. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

... when did you think they entered their positions, when the markets are closed?

They increase position size as the market trends in the direction of their intial trade based on the volatility of the instrument traded ... my description was pretty clear, you're either not understanding it, or you're not understanding it.

JJ

 

[JimmyJam]

Quote from princessa:

nice loophole on the spread betting, romik. folks over here would probably take advantage too, if u.s. had such a thing.

Yes, that's an edge which we in the US couldn't imagine having because it ain't gonna ever exist.

Once you factor that into the equation, it gives a substantial edge to any method which simply doesn't lose money.

JJ

 

[m4a1]

because they're not.

Quote from illiquid:

I did not realize Turtles traded intraday, nor did I know that increasing position size only on flipped losers is a variation of Turtle Trading Method. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[illiquid]

Quote from JimmyJam:

... when did you think they entered their positions, when the markets are closed?

They increase position size as the market trends in the direction of their intial trade based on the volatility of the instrument traded ... my description was pretty clear, you're either not understanding it, or you're not understanding it.

JJ

You've been reading what romik has been doing, correct? He is increasing size as the market goes in the same direction as the initial trade? I must have misread him for the last few pages. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I had assumed when someone writes "intraday trade/trader", it's usually meant that they open and close their trades within the same session. For a moment I thought that you were confused because some here might hold losers overnight as well.

But it must be me -- I'll go with your own definition that any trade that takes place within market hours as an "intraday" trade. I'm gracious to you for correcting my misuse of the term.

Turtle traders were intraday traders -- you learn something new every day.

 

[m4a1]

spread betting is preferable over regular futures, edge is unnecessary, etc. i wonder what advice b1 has for romik on these topics.

okay you're not trading cfds, you're with a spread betting firm, so i overestimated.

Quote from m4a1:

b1s2 you are a cruel man. you are obviously leading romik on and not telling him the danger of following this strategy. you know as well as anyone that the danger of this 25% win strategy is of course the frequent, long losing streaks. he is trading cfds (so obviously a tiny account) and you must know that he won't be able to withstand these losing streaks, especially if he risks 2% per trade and increases size after each loss.

the streaks will kill the account regardless of the gain/loss ratio. i know that you know this.

 

[apex82]

Quote from apex82:

If any of you are mini russel traders the completion of the 5 wave move is much more clear. The symmetry is very precise which gives it a very high ranking. It traded up into the meat of the zone on monday, therefore it does not need to test those levels again before hitting the minimum projected target of 791.50-793. Note that is a minimum, it does not mean the market has to stop there. If the market can open at around this 803 area I would see 804.50-807 area becoming resistance where you could get a unit short on with a 1 or 2 pt stop. The only nuance is that at extremes like this, it will sometimes wash out the zone, ie move up to 708-709 and then reverse getting you out of the trade. There are several different entry techniques if you like more confirmation before jumping in the way of the train. All in all, you can see the abudant amount of CF's in the area. Typically the tuesday and or wednesday of option expiration week are the most volatile days of the month. Since we had a 3 day weekend, the range expansion day is more likely to occur tomorrow, wednesday, due to insitutions still on the sidelines. However, It is very possible that it could occur day. Watch the first 45 minutes to determine if the institutions are online as this is a prerequisite for a big move. I expect more of a range reduction day with a bearish bias. Good trading....

You guys need to shut up and trade. There are many ways to skin a cat, each to his own. Just took out profit target 1 here at 796.50 for 8pts per contract. $16k. Holding second unit short with BE stop looking for 793-794. Initial position was a 1pt stop.

...Updated Chart...