Don's openings and more for 2005

Quote from WECoyote:

Dear Sir,

In the third set of brackets relating to 100% commisions, do yu really mean 4 cents per share or is it .004 per share? If .004 per side then you are about breakeven -- at .006 is breakeven, at .008 a loss of .002 etc.

Regards,
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Thanks for the response, I have made a minor error in my calculations, I will amend it here. They charge there traders as much as 1.25 cents per share traded whether you make money or not....this is a guaranteed loss that must be factored in. As you can see, given his assumptions and no commissions, you could make a penny, but in real world trading, you win rate will be less, and you will have losers larger than .10. Don's picture is rosey at best.

ME = (.8*.04)+(.2*-10)+(1*-.025)

ME = -.015

That is you will lose 1.5 cents per share following Don's opg order strategy. This does not include the desk fees, or the boot camp costs which will add substantial costs, and make the number much less.
 
Quote from jnbadger:

Where in gods name did you get that OPG players are going for a .04 target? I agree that there would be no point in it if that were the case.

I started the stategy in january with small size to get the hang of it, and gradually increased size, Because I CONSISTENTLY MAKE MONEY DOING IT.

Example: Today - 3/22/05

XRX Opening print was low of day @14.25 and that's where I got filled.

Please look at a 1 minute chart tell me why in the Hell would I get out with only 4 cents in my pocket. I wouldn't. Instead, I would get out where it made sense at the time, which was the previous 2 day low in this case. Made 20 cents on the trade.

I was a sceptic also. But instead posting unwarranted negative banter about a strategy i'd never even tried myself, I thought i'd give it a try since the guys in my office were doing it and making money. And what do you know? It worked. And it still works.

Jeff, Echo trader (Dons competitor)
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I never said that's what successful opg players are doing...I only said that's what don is teaching in his overpriced seminar.

I was informed by someone who has taken his course and they said that they are told to take a .04 profit and .10 loss. I am simply factoring in those assumptions. And stating the fact that you can't make money trading the strategy according to Don's teaching.

It's interesting, how everyone can tell me about there wonderful winning trades they made. That was a nice trade you made today. But what if you had shorted a stock like ADI today. How about telling me about some of your losers, because they are a very real part of the game as well.
 
Quote from gr8trader:

I was informed by someone who has taken his course and they said that they are told to take a .04 profit and .10 loss. I am simply factoring in those assumptions. And stating the fact that you can't make money trading the strategy according to Don's teaching.

It's interesting, how everyone can tell me about there wonderful winning trades they made. That was a nice trade you made today. But what if you had shorted a stock like ADI today. How about telling me about some of your losers, because they are a very real part of the game as well.
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ADI isn't a real good example because you could've gotten out with a relatively small loss of 10 - 15 cents.

A better example would be when your short gets filled and it screams against you in a hurry. That does happen, and, I think it was last thursday when I got smoked in two trades like that. It admittedly was a very bad start to my day.

But even after that, I'm still up nicely in my OPG trades.

Just a note, my longs have been doing much, much better than my shorts lately.

I haven't seen the numbers you have about the .04 target. And if that is what they are being taught, I feel for them, and I agree. It would give you a negative expectancy.

All of my exits are discressionary. It helps that even though I've only been doing opg orders for 3 months, I've been trading other strategies for 8 years, and already have somewhat of a feel (not always a good one) for how to exit these trades.

Jeff
 
This is a very simple game to keep track of success, by seeing if you're making money or not. Many do, many do not, just as in all businesses. Trying to turn the art of trading into an algebraic equation is pretty much meaningless (not that keeping track of costs is not important), it's just that the time is much better spent learning how to trade the current markets from those who actually make money in the current markets.

No reason to overcomplicate something as simple as trading. Not "easy" - few have what it takes, but "simple" - if you learn and adapt continuously. Negative attitudes never help, no matter what business you may be in.

So, be happy, trade well!!

Don
 
gr8trader,

This thread has been going on for over 3 years. Every day people who trade the opening come on this site and post their results. There is no other prop. company that would do what Bright is doing here. Every so often they get some know it all flamer like you who decides to jump in and discredit trading OO for whatever reason.

I suggest you take this holiday weekend to read through the archives on this site..................... The proof is in the pudding.

In this business you need to keep an open mind, and anytime someone is willing to post their results every day for 3 years you should shut up an listen. You just might learn something new.:cool:
 
As a successful opening order trader, I will jump in with a few of my thoughts on the subject. As far as the math is concerned, GR8Trader is absolutely correct. That being said, Openings can be a very good strategy, most days, and can also be very bad on some days. Last friday I was down 9500 on my opg orders before I could blink an eye. The key is to be able to work and trade the positons. Knowing which ones to stop out of, and which ones to hold is the real key to making this strategy work. In my case, my perseverence paid off, and I worked a large loss, into a manageable loss of about 2700, most traders would have just bailed on the positions, or been unable to think objectively about the best way to play the hand you were dealt.

The winners will always take care of themselves...they key is to have a strategy for managing your losers and your overall risk so that a singlular event can't and won't put you out of the game.

Good trading to all!

Mike
 
Quote from Midas:

gr8trader,

This thread has been going on for over 3 years. Every day people who trade the opening come on this site and post their results. There is no other prop. company that would do what Bright is doing here. Every so often they get some know it all flamer like you who decides to jump in and discredit trading OO for whatever reason.

I suggest you take this holiday weekend to read through the archives on this site..................... The proof is in the pudding.

In this business you need to keep an open mind, and anytime someone is willing to post their results every day for 3 years you should shut up an listen. You just might learn something new.:cool:
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Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message. Out of 30,000 + members, I only see about 6 people posting any kind of results on a regular basis. What does that tell you? Perhaps you view the world through rose colored glasses, but I assure you Don't intentions arn't to make you money trading. He is simply using this thread as a marketing tool to sell $3000 boot camp's and recruit traders to bright. I hope you are able to see through the smoke and mirrors...BTW....putting A $100 a day on the board trading is hardly a track record worth bragging about!!!!
 
I agree with the gentleman who states that at 1.25 cents per share and 80% profit and 20% loss with per share profit of 4 cents and per share loss of 10 cents the OPG does not work. It does not compute to a net profit.

But let us all be honest --- we all know going in to Bright and to a lot of other firms --- a newbie will be charged a higher rate than a seasoned trader. Why I do not know --- since the newer traders need more of a crutch than seasoned traders. Bright is, with desk fees and more, is the highest cost to a trader in the business. But they will provide anyone a start eg licensing which a lot of other firms require you to have before they hire.

The best rates for listed I know of is .004 per share and no other fees whatever, but then I've been in the business for 5 years.

Bottom line in exchange for a start --- Bright is the most expensive.
 
This is an honest question. I found this thread on ET's main menu where it listed "Discussion Topics with Recent Posts".

Why would any profitable trader join a trading firm, any trading firm, where their money is pooled with others & it stands at risk that other traders may lose YOUR money?

If you're profitable & your account is growing very well, your trading size will grow with your profits. Why not keep the profits for yourself & limit your risk by trading on your own? The techonlogy out today along with the API's available can not just give you a level playing field with the other pro trading desks, but you can even surpass them based on your knowledge & technical savy.

Thanks in advance for any replies
 
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