Does God Suffer From Vanity?

[rcanfiel]

Quote from kjkent1:

"OK, if what you believe doesn't change reality, then reality is not subject to alteration by faith. Thus, only science exists. "

Personally, I would agree that what I believe can change my perception of reality. Beliefs and facts are not the same thing. I do not see the point of "If a tree falls in the forest..." Sound is energy; whether or not I am present to hear it is irrelevant. People keep thinking that somehow, their beliefs or views make a difference in the natural world. I think the world would do fine without us.

I do not see science as the logical "other side" of either reality or faith. It is one of a myriad of human endeavours, along with philisophy, logic, mathematics, etc...


"You're entitled to your belief, whatever it is."

As are you; your question was highly appreciated.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from rcanfiel:

first of all, I would have been more impressed if you had had this from your own research, rather than cutting and pasting from elsewhere. But I have seen this kind of stuff before. And I doubt you really studied each of those things you quoted.

Oh, I'm SOOO offended. Would you mind telling me where I can find an online source that contains this stuff? I'm cutting and pasting from Biblegateway.com to save typing. Don't tell me that my years of Bible study during my youth was worthless.

 

[rcanfiel]

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

Oh, I'm SOOO offended. Would you mind telling me where I can find an online source that contains this stuff? I'm cutting and pasting from Biblegateway.com to save typing. Don't tell me that my years of Bible study during my youth was worthless.

Whatever

 

[rcanfiel]

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

Actually, this is scientifically incorrect. Since you like to quote science, I will let you find out what's wrong with this statement on your own.

BTW, I don't think anyone who's taken geometry would agree that a circle is the same as a sphere.

and you will have to help me here.

did not mention sphere; that is only allowed by the Hebrew. Circle is a 2-dimensional form of a sphere

there is nothing wrong with the statement. If you are going to get into the "well actually, the earth is at a 23.5 degree off the vertical, and is actually slightly pear shaped, etc..." all I can say again is, whatever.

I am here to dialogue on matters of substance. I used to play with the same "oooh, look what scripture says wrong, here." If you are willing to look at both sides, I will dialogue. I will wrangle over anything, and look at both sides also. But what I have seen from you so far is things that have appeared 100s of times before in various Skeptic sites and mags.

And if this is going to degrade into an "what about this and what about that?" then there is nothing to talk about.

 

[rcanfiel]

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

This exposes your complete ignorance of science. All scientific theories are made to be proven wrong. That is the fundamental difference between science and religion.

Tell me a single religious theory that is made to be proven wrong. Your whole premise was that the Scripture was always correct. So pointing out a few errors in the Bible was sufficient to refute your point.

OTOH, all science is made to be proven wrong. So a lot of it has been proven wrong surprises no one except those who have no clue.

These paragraphs demonstrate basically things I did not say, and things that I have no idea where you get some of your information from.

I will respond to things that do not wander around in unbased speculations...

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

I equate science as something incomplete, trying to evaluate scriptures, that are said to be complete.

Complete non sequitur. I get a laugh when empiricists tell theists how their scriptures should be read and interpreted...

Again, I believe you show your own ignorance by commenting on scriptures, as you are not taking them as they are prescribed.

Sort of like some idiot who takes a pill from a doctor, ignores the recommendations on how to take it, decides to shove it in his ear instead, then wonders why he doesn't get well, and criticizes the doctor for bad medicine....

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

Now you're starting to talk some sense. As long as you don't equate religion with science, I'm fine with both. Those who claim the Scripture as the source of all knowledge, are talking from ignorance. They know neither the Bible nor science.

 

[volente_00]

Quote from ddunbar:

Science didn't lie. It simply changed its opinion based on new information.

So now science is an opinion and not fact ?

 

[volente_00]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Please believe my sincerity in what I am about to tell you. After the exchanges we had in this thread and for you to write what you have just written, I can only surmise that you must be borderline retarded. Please be assured that I do not mean to be offensive. Your apparent inability to either understand or present a cogent argument is sad and disheartening, particularly since I know you are trying your best. I know that you are not intentionally ignoring what I wrote and just repeating yourself. I suppose it comes down to a matter of comprehension. It just doesn't seem fair anymore. I will continue to debate with those people who present reasoned arguments and who acknowledge the validity, where it exists, in the arguments of others. However, I think that our exchanges have gone as far as they are going to go. Therefore, going forward, I will endeavor to stop showing you the flaws in your logic and arguments. I wish you well. God bless.

Your refusal to answer the question proves my point. I have shown you the main flaw in being an atheist and how your belief in the atheism religion is an argue from ignorance yet you still remain too close minded to see the light. As far as the retarded comment, I happen to have a handicapped brother and do not take kindly to ASSHOLES who make fun of people. I would love for you to make that same comment to my face and show you what an argument from an ass kicking looks like.

 

[ddunbar]

Quote from volente_00:

So now science is an opinion and not fact ?

Well, ultimately nothing is known with 100% certainty. So scientific "fact" is based on changing knowledge in science and is the result of refutations or the falsification of a theory. What has not been refuted can be considered a scientific "fact" in the interim. In the grand scope of things, this of course amounts to a current opinion of empirical constructs.

 

[ddunbar]

Quote from volente_00 to thunderdog (who was out of line for the retarded comment):

... I have shown you the main flaw in being an atheist and how your belief in the atheism religion is an argue from ignorance yet you still remain too close minded to see the light.

Atheism is a worldview or ideology. Certainly not a religion. What seperates religion from worldview is the belief in something divine, supernatural, or spiritual.

Though atheism does involve a level of faith/belief, that faith/belief amounts to an educated guess as to the answer for the ultimate questions.

For instance, ask an atheist what happens to you when you die, they'll invariably respond with something along the lines of, "you simply cease to exist." That is a guess based on an empirical understanding of life being a series of chemical reactions. It's a guess because it cannot be determined with any certainty at all. But they do believe this guess. But believing this guess is not the same as religious faith. Everything observed in an empirical manner suggests that death is merely the cessation of the chemical reactions that have been observed to sustain what appears to be life. There is no evidence of a soul or spirit. Or at least such a concept is beyond the present ability to detect and test. So the only logical conclusion is that what you are is a series of chemical reactions. If those chemical reactions cease, what is your conscious self ceases.