Thanks for the explanation. Predatory genetic adaptive HFT has changed market structure forever regardless of what the charties state. One form or another of HFT is now 70% of all market volume--- Getting down to brass tacks and just the facts/- if you are a gifted market savant, maybe you can "read" charts to profits and wealth. I really have no way of knowing. Other than asking, are you wealthy from trading? If not, why not and have you considered your core beliefs/ methods may be fatally flawed? This isn't directly to you but to all of the chart TA traders. Man, there is tremendous wealth every second flowing about the market, have you taken enough for your own wealth? Maybe it's time to reevaluate why not, if not. Rhetoric will only prevail on message boards, your account knows the real truth. Peace, surf
Do full-time forex traders exist or is it just make believe?
- Thread starter zbojnik
- Start date
Thanks for the explanation. Predatory genetic adaptive HFT has changed market structure forever regardless of what the charties state. One form or another of HFT is now 70% of all market volume--- Getting down to brass tacks and just the facts/- if you are a gifted market savant, maybe you can "read" charts to profits and wealth. I really have no way of knowing. Other than asking, are you wealthy from trading? If not, why not and have you considered your core beliefs/ methods may be fatally flawed? This isn't directly to you but to all of the chart TA traders. Man, there is tremendous wealth every second flowing about the market, have you taken enough for your own wealth? Maybe it's time to reevaluate why not, if not. Rhetoric will only prevail on message boards, your account knows the real truth. Peace, surf
Quote from wrbtrader:
The above is the original question. I myself don't trade FX full-time.
To the other 1/2 of the question, I gave a list in this thread of a few firms that have full-time pro FX traders. Yeah, they're employed (salary traders) but they exist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDDe3M24AFA
This guy Geoffrey Yu was a retail FX trader and he's now a Senior FX Strategist for UBS Investment Bank. He was a successful retail trader for about 2 - 3 years prior to being salary at the firm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsevRonTbMk
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000146198
I first heard about him via his technical analysis charts of several FX markets when he first started working at UBS and soon after I met him in person through a family friend (retail trader). Later, I saw him being interviewed at UBS (a different video) and I was able to clearly see all the traders in the background, their charts with "technical indicators" on the charts.
A few months ago, Bloomberg was interviewing a FX trader @ Barclays Capital and it looked like in the background there must have been about 100 traders sitting at trading desks with 2 - 3 monitors each. The traders closes to the trader being interviewed by bloomberg, I can clearly see their charts and what looked like price moving averages on price itself and indicators as subgraphs.
The guy mention big layoffs in the FX industry last year and commented that he knows several traders that have gone "retail".
Yes, full-time FX traders do exist...professional and retail. A google of bloomberg or CNBC video interviews of FX (foreign exchange) traders confirms such.
I think the issue for the thread starter and other traders is that there are a lot of retail traders (at home traders) without an in person social network involving other full-time traders (professional and retail). Thus, its easy for them to quickly develop doubts about the existence of full-time traders due to the lack of their own personal social network especially after the financial crisis (collapse) of 2008 and the continuing European crisis.
FX is a trillion dollar business being traded...surely someone must be trading and doing such full-time.
By the way, I'm still curious why I don't see North Americans winning those FX Dukascopy trader competitions...aren't there any FX traders in the U.S. or Canada.
You ain't gonna meet another trader in person if you're retail (at home) studying the charts every day...all day. You need to get outside, go places and meet people. This ain't rocket science and you don't need an IVY league network especially with the help of social media (e.g. facebook, twitter, stocktwits, linkedin, conventions, expos, trader tournaments and so).
I think a warning is apropo for the idea of networking . While its a great idea, make certain there is real substance behind who you listen to. There is a tremendous number of sharks in this biz who will charm and attempt to mani49706945pulate the noobs with lies and mistruths. Be careful "networking" be certain that those who claim success actually have it and are not just trying to lure you, trick you into a purchase/ gain adoration, or whatever psych need they have.
Bank traders going "retail" means to me opening up a retail dealer to fleece the public, not trading in the retail sense
TA is used by hedge funds and banks but as a marketing tool not a real time decision making tool. What you see on "their" screens is what "they" want you to see. There's much deception in the market. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule but I am speaking in general. What you see/hear isn't always the way it is.
My networking with truly successful traders totally changed my views of chartTA. As I learned that it isn't used by most successful traders and that the old TA divisions of banks ( if they even still exist) were always part of the marketing departments not research.
Surf
PS. As far as the third world always winning the FX contests--- I like to think of that scene in Willie Wonka and the chocolate factory where the rich girl has a room full of people opening up candy bars searching for the golden ticket. This is the third world FX contest players--- there is tremendously more of them so it's more likely one will win the contest lottery.
Do full time, at home, retail FX traders who did not start from a position of wealth, but rather earned their wealth from retail FX, with no other income sources exist? that is the question. We all know bank FX traders are a common species.....
1min charts are clearly noise. There are definitely strategies that can make money off this noise, but retail TA scalping aint one of em, I'm actually with marketsurfer on this one, lol.
Quote from wrbtrader:
By the way, I'm still curious why I don't see North Americans winning those FX Dukascopy trader competitions...aren't there any FX traders in the U.S. or Canada.
I'm fairly sure that Dukascopy no longer accepts U.S.-based accounts, due to restrictive CFTC rules. It's a shame, actually.
I started with enough money invested to pay my bills, but for the last 10 months I have been living off just my forex profits (except some income I take to pay mom's healthcare.)
But 10 months is not a very long track record
and what I call a living you probably wouldn't call a living
but it will probably take me all of 2013 just to take out 2012's high's
it's amazng how easier trading goes, when you don't have a wife and kids who always need some unexpected expense each month
I really think I could make a living trading nothing but forex starting with just 25k, maybe 50k just to be safe, and 2 years living expenses in the bank (and of course, a low interest high limit credit card.)
but as I've said many times, my rent is only $500/mo, my car is paid for, and because I rent, I never have an unexpected expense, like last winter, when my furnace went out, all I had to do was punch 10 digits on my cell phone to the landlord, and they came out and fixed it that day, no cost to me.
but then, they published a story in the newspaper about a young forex trader in London whose bar tab just for one night was 110k
(one can only imagine what kind of margin he was trading on)
I get nervous when it starts going up over 50%, but then again, that's what it is there for, it's just it's hard to dig yourself out of a hole at half the size
Quote from Soon2Bgreat:
1min charts are clearly noise. There are definitely strategies that can make money off this noise, but retail TA scalping aint one of em, I'm actually with marketsurfer on this one, lol.
A 1min chart has a higher frequency of noise but I would not label it as "clearly noise".
Instead, you have to be alert, and constantly monitor its quality, to filter it's periods of clarity out periods where reads are unreliable, something that is also present in any time frame, including slow ones, it just so happens that this filtering must be done more often because it is, afterall, a faster chart.
??? I traded ES for many years just for one tick, $12.50, maybe $37.50
a point and a quarter was a position trade
and these were all just one lots, all on a pc with aol dial up
but you know, at the end of the day you would often get caught wih a large position of big losers
and that's when I started swinging
scalping is a young man's game and everybody should do it (when they are young.)
I would not want to be trading forex with tight stops (but then again, it didn't take me long when I was trading ES to learn, don't be a small retail trader trading anything on a computer with tight stops.), no matter how young I was
that spread really adds up, and the fewer times I have to pay it the better for me
also, unlike ES, it never pays to panic, in forex, panic is usually just a daily occurance, and it usually occurs in less than 2 minutes
when I started, those big candles really freaked me out, until I learned, if they are big and want to buy, the first thing they do is sell everything they have, then start buying at a better price
and also, in forex, almost everything is priced in about 3 months (if not more) ahead
after a while, minute by minute, day by day, week by week, month by month (and who knows, I am too new to know if it is year by year) to see the big retail move.
there are plenty of good scalping opportunites in forex every 2 hours, but you need to give up that crazy notion that scalping and stops are compatible. Scalpers don't get stopped out, they just take devestating losses, or take it home and stare at the ceiling all night wondering, "Now what the hell am I going to do?"
a point and a quarter was a position trade
and these were all just one lots, all on a pc with aol dial up
but you know, at the end of the day you would often get caught wih a large position of big losers
and that's when I started swinging
scalping is a young man's game and everybody should do it (when they are young.)
I would not want to be trading forex with tight stops (but then again, it didn't take me long when I was trading ES to learn, don't be a small retail trader trading anything on a computer with tight stops.), no matter how young I was
that spread really adds up, and the fewer times I have to pay it the better for me
also, unlike ES, it never pays to panic, in forex, panic is usually just a daily occurance, and it usually occurs in less than 2 minutes
when I started, those big candles really freaked me out, until I learned, if they are big and want to buy, the first thing they do is sell everything they have, then start buying at a better price
and also, in forex, almost everything is priced in about 3 months (if not more) ahead
after a while, minute by minute, day by day, week by week, month by month (and who knows, I am too new to know if it is year by year) to see the big retail move.
there are plenty of good scalping opportunites in forex every 2 hours, but you need to give up that crazy notion that scalping and stops are compatible. Scalpers don't get stopped out, they just take devestating losses, or take it home and stare at the ceiling all night wondering, "Now what the hell am I going to do?"