Best Country for Trading (Tax efficiency)
- Thread starter ET873
- Start date
Please do not misunderstand what I am saying. I think what is coming will be much worse than your description. When -- not if -- the major industrial nations lose their coveted AAA and AA credit ratings I believe we will see increasingly chaotic conditions. I think the September '08 through March '09 period equates to 1929 and 1930 not '32 and ''33.
The piper is yet to be paid.
But you, and others in this thread say things like -- "I think it's wise to begin looking at diversifying our securities outside of US control for reasons of safety as well as tax efficiency" -- as if that offers a real level of protection and or control. You are right the US is one of the few countries to tax foreign income.
BUT IT DOES!
And, if you continue to remain a US citizen you will either tell them where your offshore financial assets are, or you will commit tax fraud. I am OK with you doing either -- it is you life and your choice. But to talk of "diversifying assets" as if the US Courts do not have the authority to order those assets be brought back here is simply foolish. In practical terms the US citizen has a very hard time protecting himself unless he is willing to say goodbye to his US passport and even then their are recapture provisions.
In the 70's I once spent five hours in a trust attorney's office in Vaduz negotiating the formation of a charitable trust that in turn was to control a BVI Corp. The trust was to be controlled by the foreign wife of an American citizen. The laws have been changed since but at the time a wife that you trusted that was also not an American citizen was worth her weight in diamonds in this type of offshore financial planning.
It took five hours of very careful drafting to get it right working with one of Lichtenstien's top tax authorities. And that is when the regs were MUCH looser. For those unfamiliar with Lichtenstein and it's capital Vaduz it is where the Swiss have historically gone to obtain true confidentiality.
The realities of practical business are often a good deal more complex than they appear to be from the comfortable chair in your study. Doing these types of transaction yet remaining protected from US taxation is much more difficult than the casual observer perceives.
Yes ... you are correct that this country is in trouble. But ... no, you can't just fly to the Caymans, have dinner on the beach, see Coutes & Co. the next morning and fly home with it done.
Most of the real options are astonishingly unattractive in 2010. Your best bet? Make lots of money and keep the balances in a diversified group of inflation resistant assets with an emphasis on having half your wealth in things that are difficult to confiscate. A well chosen portfolio of copyrights, shale oil royalties etc will balance off the precious metals which run some risk of confiscation.
And of course a nimble trader will earn enormous sums regardless of the regulation.
This is not an area for superficial thinking. It does not hold up.
So, while you do not think so ... I still do think so.
The piper is yet to be paid.
But you, and others in this thread say things like -- "I think it's wise to begin looking at diversifying our securities outside of US control for reasons of safety as well as tax efficiency" -- as if that offers a real level of protection and or control. You are right the US is one of the few countries to tax foreign income.
BUT IT DOES!
And, if you continue to remain a US citizen you will either tell them where your offshore financial assets are, or you will commit tax fraud. I am OK with you doing either -- it is you life and your choice. But to talk of "diversifying assets" as if the US Courts do not have the authority to order those assets be brought back here is simply foolish. In practical terms the US citizen has a very hard time protecting himself unless he is willing to say goodbye to his US passport and even then their are recapture provisions.
In the 70's I once spent five hours in a trust attorney's office in Vaduz negotiating the formation of a charitable trust that in turn was to control a BVI Corp. The trust was to be controlled by the foreign wife of an American citizen. The laws have been changed since but at the time a wife that you trusted that was also not an American citizen was worth her weight in diamonds in this type of offshore financial planning.
It took five hours of very careful drafting to get it right working with one of Lichtenstien's top tax authorities. And that is when the regs were MUCH looser. For those unfamiliar with Lichtenstein and it's capital Vaduz it is where the Swiss have historically gone to obtain true confidentiality.
The realities of practical business are often a good deal more complex than they appear to be from the comfortable chair in your study. Doing these types of transaction yet remaining protected from US taxation is much more difficult than the casual observer perceives.
Yes ... you are correct that this country is in trouble. But ... no, you can't just fly to the Caymans, have dinner on the beach, see Coutes & Co. the next morning and fly home with it done.
Most of the real options are astonishingly unattractive in 2010. Your best bet? Make lots of money and keep the balances in a diversified group of inflation resistant assets with an emphasis on having half your wealth in things that are difficult to confiscate. A well chosen portfolio of copyrights, shale oil royalties etc will balance off the precious metals which run some risk of confiscation.
And of course a nimble trader will earn enormous sums regardless of the regulation.
This is not an area for superficial thinking. It does not hold up.
So, while you do not think so ... I still do think so.
you should ask ubs clients about that one... anyway, this is dumb and illegal.
um, so how exactly are you going to renounce and never leave? they don't let you renounce inside the us, you need to renounce elsewhere. only way to get back in is if you're part of the vwp with your other passport, you get a visa, or you jump the fence. doing the last one you risk getting caught and deported with zero chance of ever getting let back in.
the moment you realize that the, 'k, this is illegal but i don't see how anyone could get caught' ideas are a waste of time, then you will have arrived at the ability to assess risk correctly. usually those types of ideas are only pondered when you're either too young to know better or to stupid to see the consequences or both. you have to factor in the stress of 'hiding' and always covering your tracks and the risk of losing it all... it's higher than you think. do it right, spend your energy on making money and you'll be much happier.
I never said anyone should do that and no one ever refuted what I proposed (and again, I said that I did not recommend doing that, it was just to show that there are ways (extreme, fine) to avoid paying taxes in America. Millions of people are already living in this country without citizenship or work visa. I don't know how to survive an economic doomsday scenario. Most of my detractors acknowledge that the US is not on a good path. But none have offered any "reasonable / practical" alternative plan to avoid a wealth/asset tax. They simply hope that they will not see that in their lifetimes.
I think I spelled out in reasonable detail the strategy that I think works to prosper. Prospering is the point not avoiding the problems associated with living in a declining empire.Empires peak and then decline ... it is a natural cycle. We rose very quickly and we are about to come down the other side of the slope in record time.
The key is to recognize and be fully aware of the times you live in and use the opportunities that chaos presents. Not to live like an illegal immigrant so you can "get over" on Uncle Sam.
Grow up.
The key is to recognize and be fully aware of the times you live in and use the opportunities that chaos presents. Not to live like an illegal immigrant so you can "get over" on Uncle Sam.
Grow up.
I don't know how long you are planning on living, but for those of us who plan to be around longer than the next 5 years, you will have to come up with a better plan than:
You suggested only two very impractical options which although may be harder to confiscate than holding metals, it will be easy to tax the income. And copyrights? Gimme a break! I would have given you more credit if you suggested investing in cosmetic surgery. lol
If the US ever imposes a wealth tax, you have NO PLAN to protect your assets. Might as well move to France now and get a head start on losing your wealth.