BE DO HAVE and Jack Hershey vs Objective Reality

[Tums]

Quote from virgin:

Guys,

You have to read better, I did not say you can't make profits with Hershey methods.
In fact ,I use channels myself but claiming to make outlandish claims like 3 times the H-L warrants a very sceptic attitude.

Does the guru or any of you makes 3 times the daily range ?

almost impossible , if you can just put up or shut up if you want to be taken seriously

I can see you are softening up. You are almost a believer. Wait a minute, maybe you have already become a believer.

 

[Tums]

Quote from nkhoi:

click post number to see all his post and you know he has a score to settle, approach with caution, know your field guide etc...

yes, I start to see a pattern now. It is the same small group of people, using different handles, creating different threads, asking the same questions over and over again. LOL.

I should thank them though. Without their repeated pestering, I wouldn't have hitched this ride.
;-)

 

[Harold Balls]

Because channels and PV and all that stuff doesnt work. I am trying to tell you that, go on your merry way and forget everything you heard about the hershey method. Trust me, my trading and bank accts are NOT growing rapidly b/c of the method.

Quote from Score:

Why wont Jack accept Trader666's realtime trading challenge???

 

[ktmexc20]

Quote from bighog:

What possible goal would guys like Jack, Apex82, etc have in mind except to sell a bogus commission generating "method" to some FCM (broker)?

Just look at Jacks claims: twice, triple the daily range, always in, never a loser. What will those claims generate besides commission revenue? Jack, etc are attempting to sell the usual crap that we all knew as "CHURN EM & BURN EM". Brokerages know most newbies will flame out within a year. The commission houses have one mission in mind..........get the accounts to generate as much commission as fast as possible before they implode. These charlatan types want to sell these bogus "methods" as third party addins.

Jack and others need to look in the mirror and look at who they really are and is the mission worth ones self integrity.

You guys with a mind-set about Jack, parallel to this, are so superficial it makes me want to make this comment:

Just allowing yourself to only see what's on the surface, will in most cases, not lead you to a truth or an in-depth understanding. Broaden your knowledge... THINK!

I sincerely feel sorry for you.

Thanks Jack.
-kt

 

[Bearbelly]

Speaking as one who has migrated from one camp to the other I confess to being a partial believer if there is any such thing. I do not know how much Jack makes, who hes living with, how many books he has written, if he is insane or a genius. I do know that drawing channels and annotating them consistently leads to better trading. As Optioncoach( who is posting trades) has said, it fits in very well with other methods. There is no voodoo here, it is simple geometry and common sense. An FTT is simply failure of price to progress beyond resistence or support and an indication that a revesal may be at hand. If volume is also falling off this is also helpful to know. Nothing about any of this is illogical so what it boils down to is Jacks personality rubs many people the wrong way. It is really cutting off your nose to spite your face to ignore the things of value contained in his teaching because you cannot stand the man. He rubs me the wrong way too. I have him on ignore.

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from bighog:

It is about selling the method and fleecing the flock. Why else would anyone spend so much time on this? There is a $$$ motive involved.

Your comments speak more to your character than anyone else's.

For almost three years, I have provided assistance to anyone who asked, free of charge. I have often spent my own money to travel and assist those who asked. If, as you claim, money provided my motivation, I would have simply disappeared and made my money from trading and not uttered a single word as to how I did it.

I find accusations of fraud quite amusing when they come from someone who conveniently switches between user names to post on these boards. Oh I know Batterup (bighog), you are logged in from 'another machine' right? Oddly enough, I never seem to have such difficulties when logging in from my lap top.

Since you seem to 'know it all' with respect to my motivations, maybe you could explain just how I planned to 'fleece the flock' with so many people standing guard - such as yourself? I mean surely, I must have a plan to obtain the necessary monetary payoff after spending so much time and energy assisting others?

You didn't think this thing all the way through, did you?

Thanks again for revealing the quality of your character.

- Spydertrader

 

[Harold Balls]

You are clearly a mid to low level trader at best. Keep having a closed mind and go through life thinking that there is no better way. That way you wont be disappointed with yourself.

And by the way, none of those guys is charging a cent for any of the knowledge. Please read up on things before opening your trap.

Quote from bighog:

it takes very little brain power to look at bars within a channel and say...well this bar did not go higher.....GEE time to go short. or GEE, this is higher, time to go long.

Then at end of the day you add up all the wiggles and claim that when "always in" (stop and reverse) and discipline even the Pope could not follow you would make triple the range.

The knowledge that must be understood about a method like that is simply that "you are stroking yourself." Face it, if trading was that EASY, the game would have been over a long time ago. Jack has come up with nothing but a beautiful vision of the BEST POSSIBLE WORLD. We all know utopia is a pipedream. (and this all is nothing new, been around for decades).


It is about selling the method and fleecing the flock. Why else would anyone spend so much time on this? There is a $$$ motive involved.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from bighog:

it takes very little brain power to look at bars within a channel and say...well this bar did not go higher.....GEE time to go short. or GEE, this is higher, time to go long.

We do not advocate that it takes any brains to trade PVT or SCT. Upper formkids can do it easily.

You are correct that annotating into the right side of a blank portion of a screen does give a person a price and volume context (channel) for seeing price movement and price come to the end of movement.

Since channels overlap, a person is capable of annotiatng this in a timely manner and, thus, have the timingconcept straight at all times.

Then at end of the day you add up all the wiggles and claim that when "always in" (stop and reverse) and discipline even the Pope could not follow you would make triple the range.

This sentence is a little flawed for a few reasons. It is correct for you but not correct for practitioners. Trades are automatically added on accounts. See the P and L thread postings. On logs they could be added up, I guess.

You correctly observe the crayola or advanced crayola results. Wiggles is a good substitute for zig zags, as well.

the way to parenthetically describe "all in" is hold and reverse rather than your stop and reverse. this is just a slip for you in regard to your orientation to hold periods where you emphasis "protection" rather than "continuing". "protection" is a fear orientation of conventional orthodoxy (See Lo et al) and "continuation" is a building on success or positive orientation from "being on the right side of the market". data seets are taken todetermine one of two things: continuation or change. These represent the binary possibilities of making money. when the market tells a person to "continue" he does. when the market says "change" it means that the side of the market to be on is changing. A person has to obey this.

In January we concentrate on the big chunks of money. That is trading the large moves of the market during the day. Like going from one side of the range to the other repeatedly. It is called going from FTT to FTT. FTT's are coarse limits of price movement.

This means a person is doing a routine of four parts over and over and most of the time he gets a conclusion to "continue". This is a routine for practitioners and for you it is a Papal level religious observation made from the outside. It is not remotely necessary to kneel down and get into some religious orientation to "get it". It is a geometric experience if anything. Think fifth or sixth grade and rulers and protractors and compasses.

When a person goes from FTT to FTT he gets used to seeing the ebb and flow of price as the market passes time between subway stations and not stations of the cross. he gets to feel the deja vu of the train ride day after day. It is not a once a week experience going around the hall or in the booth.

It is a succession of successful data set takings and subsequent observations that the conclusion reached was correct. the routine is the opposite of freakout land where "stops" are in and almost all the time price is heading to hit them after a bet has been placed. SCT is the opposite of the measured fear, anxiety and anger of trading the conventional orthodoxy.


The knowledge that must be understood about a method like that is simply that "you are stroking yourself."

the four part routine is a matter of two entities working in concert. It is as you say simply the trader and the market sharing responsibilities. The market is always there and operating (some say the market is always right; that means figuring out who is right is the game bing played; skip playing the game of who is right). So is the trader; he makes trades rarely during the day. Most of the time he is working. Doing the routine.

Monitor for a data set. Check. That is something that is understood.

BUT the trader has to have a display to use. Most people never get to see the markets. Just look at the screens that are posted in ET. Almost none of them have a display of what is going on.

Figure out how many traders CANNOT even get the forming bar to NOT be on the extreme right of their monitor.



Face it, if trading was that EASY, the game would have been over a long time ago.

It was over a long time ago for me. In 1957. BUT the conventional orthodoxy is so pervasive that it "simply" buries the herd, the financial industry and its workers. Gaming is not the way to make money. Pool extraction IS the way to make money. People have a set of beliefs and they lead to behavior and it all based upon the conventional orthodoxy of probability and gaming.

Making money is a different thing. For making money wiggles rule. There are three levels of effectivenss of making money. So far the coarse level is in the SCT. For PVT we have gotten coarse and medium in the picture.

The template uses three levels of channels.

coarse channels

medium is traverses (channels) of the coarse.

fine is the actions within (channels) of the traverses.

These are the levels of the wiggles. Each wiggle level contributes some profits to the total profits.

Crayola 201 lets a person show the color of each level of coarse medium and fine.

The segments of profit (wiggles) do add up. At some point they are equal to performance of method A, B, C, etc.... then at a given level they become comparable to the daily range and approaches D, E, F and so on......then the sum get to be a multiple of the daily range and is like approaches G, H J, K... For PVT it turns out that instruments like equities yield 2 1/2 % daily on the coarse level and run up to 15% or so on the highest levels. Fro SCT, a leveraged type trading in ES, the multiples we see are as stated. All of this is, as stated, by detractors, "impossible", from the measurement point of view of the conventional orthodoxy.

If a seasoned person is performing and sees it is work to do the conventiional orthodoxy and never gert past a certain performance level, then it must be true that EASY is not going to happen elsewhere.

Well there are different kinds of bicycles and some are EASY to ride in places that are "impossibile" for other kinds of bicycles. That is the way it is in almost all fields of endeavor. Wtih regard to investing, anyone can play anyway they want as long as they have the capital to play.


Jack has come up with nothing but a beautiful vision of the BEST POSSIBLE WORLD.

Crayolas usually work for getting the wiggles on the table. And yes the crayolas are nothing compared to the real McCoy. For me it ia always a breakthrough for a conversation to get to the point where what the market offers is being seen in one way or another. virgin is seeing it too as something that is a measure (the daily range) and he is still stuck in being able to see the wiggles crossing it over and over in segments as the dayunfolds. Some peopole caught the limiting case of 7X, even.

It is there and it is the ELEPHANT that is now in the room for a good many people.

We all know utopia is a pipedream. (and this all is nothing new, been around for decades).

Pipes are more popular than ever and meeting places are now centered on their group use. Utopia is still not on any flight schedules or maps. Both are there in one form or other and not new. I use Crayolas to create reality reality. I am not up to smileys yet but I may consider it if some more of the detractors come around. We are running much better ratios than in the past.

How can a person get past the pipedream stage of rejection?

We recommend work and drills. The forum has two volumes out now thanks to Eric, a UA senior, who has switched from paying his way through college with poker to doing SCT. He edits the jounal monthly and puts it up for printing as a pdf file in color. This month is 140 pages with a table of contents, cover and the sub title is YM leads the ES. Our great thanks to Eric for his passforward to us.

Print volume 1 and 2, study it and hilite it and begin the work after you have gotten your computer market display set up. Use the daily log and debrief. Go to the chat room and see how many people call their trades.


It is about selling the method and fleecing the flock. Why else would anyone spend so much time on this? There is a $$$ motive involved.

See Eric segway above. Here is a test you can perform. Try to send money. Let ET know if you were successful in any way. Quarterly we run a sweep of those using the name as a bait and switch. We are currently declining 3 times the Jake Bernstein speaking level of payment. If we speak it is gratis. Everyone who is passing it forward (helping others) is also contributing some of their new found profits to things they deem worthy.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from rhymeswithorang:

Score says, "No it boils down to claims of never losing, triple the daily range and no proof of such ludicrous claims... fraud!"

And that is exactly the issue.

Some exactitude:

1. Re losses. See the camtasias on the web site, esp Jack hershey and Todd Billis on losses. See also the 12 stop comparison document which is in three parts. See also the prints posted in the past.

2. Triples. This week there was some trending. The result was that any two consecutive days had triple digit point gains and when there was trending 3x was not attained. We use 40 points for adding a contract (it is manditory at some stages of learning). This means that in a two consecutive day period this week, it was regquired to add at least two contracts in that period. I'm sure a lot of people in all profitable approaches were adding contracts this week. I also notice that at some times during each days trading a lot of small accounts were being wiped out around certain times. See the T&S and DOM protection levels.

3. Proofs of various things. There is lots of proof and it is worldwide at this point. About 25 different exchanges (markets). I have the impression that you do not have it and I do. I do not know why you are not getting it except to say that I have no interest in providing it to you and probably no one else does either. There is no quid pro quo,even. (this is a business term). Some people say that I am still handing out life savers while most others have stopped as is the policy for 2007 onward. I am, it turns out.

There are many more issues than you know of, so far. See my replies of tasking for score to get done.

 

[nzbryant]

Quote from jack hershey:

Some say the market is always right; that means figuring out who is right is the game bing played; skip playing the game of who is right

Brilliant