Banning Illegal immigrants? Wouldnt that destroy the US economy

[romik]

Quote from mahram:

Romik I thought america was the home of democracy. Thats why people come to the west for economic and religious freedoms. Its always the first generation of immigrants who are illegal or legal who have it the roughtest, and hardest to assimilate. Like I said look at the 1st generation irish who came here illegally or legally. They had it very very very rought. But look at them now, you wouldnt be able to distinguish them from any other american, or call them unpatriotic. Its the same with the hispanics, in 25 years, they will be fully assimilated.

Democracy has nothing to do with the subject of this debate. Once an illegal immigrant becomes a citizen, only then you can bring up democracy issues. Illegal immigrants have no part in democracy. I know the above comes out as a harsh statement, but that is indeed so. Democracy only concerns citizens and has its boundaries anyway.

Economy of the US is better of with the presence of cheap labour, but that is not to suggest that it would be 'destroyed' in the event of non-existence of cheap labour.

 

[loufah]

Quote from jackbyrd:

And guess what folks, these people do, in fact, pay into our ravaged social security system.

How does this work? If they're illegal, they don't have a SSN, so how is money contributed to social security in their name?

 

[canyonman00]

Quote from mahram:

Like I said look at the 1st generation irish who came here illegally or legally. They had it very very very rought. But look at them now, you wouldnt be able to distinguish them from any other american, or call them unpatriotic. Its the same with the hispanics, in 25 years, they will be fully assimilated.

And it is at this "1st generation" level where the laws need to start to take affect if you are going to "PROPERLY" manage immigration. You see, everyone is not "ENTITLED" to come just because. There are rules and regulations for addmittance. These need to be understood, thought through, and most importantly, agreed to by both sides! If an immigrant determines that America is not operating fast enough, they have the right to decline to go through with the process. Not to accelerate it because they don't like it!

 

[trada101]

Quote from mahram:

The quota just fine, then how come so many employers want to hire illegals. And its not for below minimum wage, its for min or slightly higher. If you are a capitalist and american you should desire for a free enterprise and right to employ people for teh prevailing legal minimum wage.

If you are a capitalist and american you would OBEY the law of the land.

They hire them not because there's no one to work the jobs, they hire them because there are people willing to work for much less. Kind of like pirating software. Why pay $100 when you can pay $5 for a burned copy? BECAUSE it's ILLEGAL that's why. So instead of money going to a legal citizen who pay taxes and contributes to society it goes to an illegal who probably is leeching off the social system (via health care and education costs) and on top of that probably sends part of their untaxed income out of the country.

But you seem to be focused on... "but they will eventually become americans just like you and me" and you don't seem to want to deal with the mundane details like REALITY. It would be great if the US could admit everyone who wanted to come. But you can't have lawlessness and just admit anyone who thinks they should live here. Would you like it if someone came to your house and just started to live there? With the reason being well they will eventually become part of the family. Would you be willing to pay for this person even though you are in debt up your butt? Heck no!

The US is not Disney land, it's can't be a fairey tale for everyone. There are laws and people need to obey them.

 

[Triple X]

Quote from loufah:

How does this work? If they're illegal, they don't have a SSN, so how is money contributed to social security in their name?

They can get tax ID #'s from the gov't, and pay their taxes. They can also get a card from the Mexican consulate, that acts like a SS card, then they can get credit, drivers license, mortgage, etc. Our government is not going to do anything, in fact they seem quite tolerant of the situation. These people are the future of America, and the middle class is going to be used to fund their education/health care.

 

[zdreg]

Quote from mahram:

the problem is dand, then where do you stop with that law. How are you going to judge if people are citizen or not. If your great great grand father or mother were here illegally are you then strip of citizenship. Or if your mothers legal and your father or vice versa you are half an american. Or if your ancestors were slaves you should have your citizenship stripped. Those laws were created for a reason. To prevent the government from arbitrary determining people b/c of their color, race, ethinicity , and etc if they are citizens or not. And thats not the problem with illegals you cant get good enought healthcare, if you listened to clinton's everybody would have free healthcare.

not true. you create a law which is hopefully reasonable. you do not have to go further back than the parents. no solution will be perfect especially where one parent is american and the other is not. that does not mean that you ignore the problem.
however, you can not encourage women to come to the US to have babies because their childern are automatic citizens.

 

[trada101]

Quote from Triple X:

They can get tax ID #'s from the gov't, and pay their taxes. They can also get a card from the Mexican consulate, that acts like a SS card, then they can get credit, drivers license, mortgage, etc. Our government is not going to do anything, in fact they seem quite tolerant of the situation. These people are the future of America, and the middle class is going to be used to fund their education/health care.

I heard the Mexican gov was pushing their identity cards but it has not been accepted so they are pushing the IRS Individual Tax numbers to replace SSN#s.

The point is the illegals make so little their tax contribution is most likely little to none. Especially since they also benefit from tax credits that they should not be since this is entitled to legal residents only.

 

[StacyTrader1]

the problem is dand, then where do you stop with that law. How are you going to judge if people are citizen or not. If your great great grand father or mother were here illegally are you then strip of citizenship. Or if your mothers legal and your father or vice versa you are half an american. Or if your ancestors were slaves you should have your citizenship stripped. Those laws were created for a reason. To prevent the government from arbitrary determining people b/c of their color, race, ethinicity , and etc if they are citizens or not. And thats not the problem with illegals you cant get good enought healthcare, if you listened to clinton's everybody would have free healthcare.


>>> AGREED!! Shoulda listened to Clinton!

Ciao!

Stacy

 

[zdreg]

Quote from Triple X:

They can get tax ID #'s from the gov't, and pay their taxes. They can also get a card from the Mexican consulate, that acts like a SS card, then they can get credit, drivers license, mortgage, etc. Our government is not going to do anything, in fact they seem quite tolerant of the situation. These people are the future of America, and the middle class is going to be used to fund their education/health care.

it is to the government's advantage that they are illegal because the social secuiry tax is paid and will not be collected by the contributor.

whether these people are the future of america will be determined by the resources used to fight illegal immigration.
It is unhealthy for the US to have the majority of immigration to come from one country or speaking one langauge.

Europe is already suffering the consequences of major influxes of moslems. it is absurd that middle east policy and cultural standards should be determined by moslem immigrants merely because of their large numbers. because of their large numbers and the generous welfare system in europe, they have no incentive to integrate themselves into european society.

The US needs a pliant and CHEAP labor force to compete in world trade. this is the reason illegal immigration has been tolerated.

a solution that allows many immigrants to come to the US but not predominantly from one group is ideal.

 

[fhl]

stacy said: " if you listened to clinton's everybody would have free healthcare.


>>> AGREED!! Shoulda listened to Clinton!

Ciao!

Stacy"


Don't you mean you would get health care and someone else would pay for it? After all, most people advocate this position because they think their taxes will only go up a little, but they would save a huge amount on their health care. It's not free, the money has to come from somewhere.