BAN semi-automatic weapons

killthesunshine · Feb 28, 2010

Quote from tomdavis:

Can you see that there's a difference between a law-abiding citizen with a gun and criminal with a gun? Can you see that laws against gun ownership punish law-abiding citizens and reward criminals?

And, by the way, there is no statistical gymnastics. The statistic is a result of "self-selection" by legal gun owners who choose to be law-abiding citizens. The choice to be law-abiding is good thing.

How do you define a "law-abiding" citizen ? Should someone that has been convicted of say...disorderly conduct at sometime during their lives be ineligible for gun ownership?

tomdavis · Feb 28, 2010

Quote from killthesunshine:

Then you DO agree that guns should be restricted to "fit" people only?

Now, do you also agree with the FULL AUTO ban even for the "fit" that have passed background checks?

I agree that criminals should not have guns. But I'm afraid that's all we can agree on.

killthesunshine · Feb 28, 2010

Quote from tomdavis:

I agree that criminals should not have guns. But I'm afraid that's all we can agree on.

what you seem to not understand is they are not criminals TILL they get a gun. in effect your policy is giving a free pass to advanced weaponry for EVERYONE! :eek:

Gabfly1 · Feb 28, 2010

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

you seem to feel that way about any statistic that you don't like...

No, I'm serious. Look at the context of the statement.

killthesunshine · Feb 28, 2010

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

then how do you explain the very low rates of gun crime in switzerland and israel? where assault weapons and amo are easy to obtain, and even issued by the state in many cases? both of these nations have far lower instances of gun crime than the united states... can you explain?

How do you explain it? Different culture maybe? I'll bet there are a LOT of differences between the countries but does surely this doesn't prove one solution for all?

killthesunshine · Feb 28, 2010

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

you are going to answer the question with a question? i asked for an explanation of a fact which refutes your assertion and all you can do is turn the question back on me? that's weak.

what it proves is that the GUN POLICY doesn't necessarily effect the rate of gun crime.

all you know is that they have very, very much less regulated gun policies, and also far lower rates of gun crime. hence, your assertion than gun crime is necessarily associated with the legality and legal availability of certain guns is false.

You are talking "rate of gun crime" per citizen.

How about rate of VICTIMS per gun crime??!

killthesunshine · Feb 28, 2010

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

both. israel and switzerland have fewer shooters and shooting victims per capita, and absolute of course... yet they both have semi auto weapons widely available to the public, and also have permits to carry concealed weapons widely available. so, why don't you explain. why don't you convince US why we should give away MORE of our freedoms, and pave the way for MORE beaurocracy in order to initiate and enforce a measure which doesn't seem to achieve it's stated objectives...

your argument is nothing new and as foolish as this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM

killthesunshine · Feb 28, 2010

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

then you wonder why you can't get any support behind your argument... someone presents facts which you don't like, and you offer 2nd grade insults and a youtube video...

why don't you actually address the facts?

you "cherry pick" two countries to present as proof that more firearms mean less firearm deaths. Are you serious? Do more auto's mean LESS auto deaths? you must be a freaking moron

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms

Lucrum · Feb 28, 2010

"In the United States, cities tend to have higher criminal gun violence rates but lower rates of gun ownership, compared with rural areas which tend to have lower criminal gun violence rates but higher rates of gun ownership."

Williams, Kirk R.; Elliott, Delbert S.; Hamburg, Beatrix A. (1998). Violence in American schools: a new perspective. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. pp. 133.

killthesunshine · Feb 28, 2010

Quote from Lucrum:

"In the United States, cities tend to have higher criminal gun violence rates but lower rates of gun ownership, compared with rural areas which tend to have lower criminal gun violence rates but higher rates of gun ownership."

Williams, Kirk R.; Elliott, Delbert S.; Hamburg, Beatrix A. (1998). Violence in American schools: a new perspective. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. pp. 133.

that's like saying higher rates of auto ownership lead to less rates of AUTO accidents. it's patently stupid on its face