Atlas Shrugged the movie

This is precisely the problem with the mindset of people on the left. They view the money people make as the governments first, and the individuals second. Thus when a "rich" person gets to keep a little more of the money which they earned left wingers view this as stealing money from the government, and thus if there is less money to give away to people who dont want to work as hard they view it as people "stealing" from the poor, when in fact the entire notion of anyone "stealing" from someone who doesnt have anything is absurd.

Quote from Maverick74:

It's a very ambiguous loaded question.

"Name one "truely" free market capitalist system where the rich *didn't* steal from the poor."

Define truly. Define free market. Define rich. Define poor. You can use semantics to make these words fit into whatever point you are trying to make. Give me an example of how the rich can even possibly take anything from someone who has NOTHING. Doesn't that defy the law of common sense? I'm being honest here, your question is just not very specific. I can give you specific examples of communists stealing from the poor. I can give you specific examples in my own family. I can give you very ugly, depressing and explicit details of that. But when you make a broad statement, you are the one who has to provide the clarity, not Hello or myself. Do you care to do that? I'll give you an honest reply if you can.
 
Quote from Hello:

If you are implying that America isnt a free market capitalist system...

I'm not implying anything. I'm asking you to provide an actual example from human history that supports your claim that in a truly free society the rich won't be stealing.

If you can't do that, you aren't making a logical argument, you are in fact making a religious one. And there's nothing wrong wth that, so long as we are clear on the issue. This is the third time I've asked, if you continue to evade, I will assume you simply can't provide an answer.

More from The Master...

"What improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconvenience to the whole."
 
Quote from Maverick74:

. Give me an example of how the rich can even possibly take anything from someone who has NOTHING..

it works the other way. How can you have had stolen something if you have NOTHING..Someone could have had something and then have it stolen and be left with NOTHING, but not the other way around.

you need to think of the before and after to work this properly
 
Quote from antitrust:

The anything goes capitalism that posters beraid me with does not exist and is impossible.

Agreed. The only place it has ever existed is in the fantasies of ivory tower academia.

Me, I live in the real world with real people, and prefer reality-based approaches. For example, I would quite like a return to revenue policies the US used to have - very low internal taxation, coupled with high tariffs.
 
Quote from Random.Capital:

I'm not implying anything. I'm asking you to provide an actual example from human history that supports your claim that in a truly free society the rich won't be stealing.

If you can't do that, you aren't making a logical argument, you are in fact making a religious one. And there's nothing wrong wth that, so long as we are clear on the issue. This is the third time I've asked, if you continue to evade, I will assume you simply can't provide an answer.

More from The Master...

"What improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconvenience to the whole."

Who is the master? Budha, Marx? Thanks

Can you name a society where greed is not the driving force? If it's not the rich it will be the government stealing. Capitalism captures this human certainty better than others isms resulting in the rise of the west. The eastern philosophy nations can not compete with the overall benefits of capitalism. I think the results speak for themselves. Thanks. Surf
 
Quote from Random.Capital:

Agreed. The only place it has ever existed is in the fantasies of ivory tower academia.

Me, I live in the real world with real people, and prefer reality-based approaches. For example, I would quite like a return to revenue policies the US used to have - very low internal taxation, coupled with high tariffs.

yes, too bad theories are substituted for historical precedent
 
All you have done is provide me a bunch more examples of the government stealing from people. And for the most part these are examples of the government stealing from the rich. And the funny thing is all you did was show me a bunch of examples of third world shit hole dictatorships (which is the total opposite of free market capitalism)


Quote from antitrust:

3.3 trillion a simple search would yield this

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-trillion-in-emergency-aid-during-crisis.html

http://epostmedia.com/federal-reserve-forced-to-reveal-bailout-recipients-of-3-3-trillion/375127/

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/269553-usiscorrupt/120604-3-3-trillion-dollar-give-away






the fed gave the money it is a private institution.congress did not vote on it.

There's going to be some kind of hierarchy amongst a group of people in the same geographical area. Weather it's an official government or not. Corporations spend billions lobbing change laws If there was no government there would be no laws to change. Corporate power would get what they want without bribes. So a non-governmental scenario would yield the same result in this situation. The corruption would simply move to the next power structure .




taxes are only one from of wealth distribution. privately created money is another. land grabs is another. corporate collusion and sabotage are another. No bid contracts. privatizing utilities and then quadrupoling the price ( see Enron). an open boarder policy is another. Military support of oil is another. you must take all the WD mechanisms to find the total. Also I never once said i was for taxes or a communist. My posts in previous threads suggest going back to the policies that this country had (which includes no taxes which I have advocated on this site before).





again, unless you consider pre WWII america communist I accept your apology.The anything goes capitalism that posters beraid me with does not exist and is impossible. The selfish greed that claims to be the pillar of capitalism says that individuals will always do what's in there best interest even if the the gains are nefariously gotten.




well when capitalists make deals with middle east monarchs who claims divine rights ( which capitalistic nations put in power) to the land and resources. I would consider that stealing. don't you?

when citibank,chase ( capitalists) and others bribed leaders of third world countries to put private debt on the public's book during the 70's i consider that stealing. don't you?

When the railroads (capitalists) got land give aways in the post-civil war era i consider that stealing. don't you
 
Your the one asking the question, you show me examples of how the rich steal from the poor in America?

Again since the rich are stealing from the poor in America why is it that the poor people from every other country in the world flock to this country?Surely they dont come here just to get robbed.

Quote from Random.Capital:

I'm not implying anything. I'm asking you to provide an actual example from human history that supports your claim that in a truly free society the rich won't be stealing.
 
Well, if you can't do it, you can't do it, and religious debates hold little interest for me.

Cheers, with one last quote from The Master...

"All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."
 
Quote from Hello:

All you have done is provide me a bunch more examples of the government stealing from people. And for the most part these are examples of the government stealing from the rich.

You're being quite obtuse and can do better. The government funneling tax money from the working class to finance the shenanigans of the wealthy is theft.
 
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