Atlas Shrugged the movie

[Random.Capital]

As Engels once wrote...

"This disposition to admire, and almost to worship, the rich and powerful, and to despise, or at least neglect persons of poor and mean conditions, though necessary both to establish and to maintain the distinction of ranks and the order of society, is, at the same time, the great and most universal cause of the corruption of our moral sentiments."

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Random.Capital:

As Engels once wrote...

"This disposition to admire, and almost to worship, the rich and powerful, and to despise, or at least neglect persons of poor and mean conditions, though necessary both to establish and to maintain the distinction of ranks and the order of society, is, at the same time, the great and most universal cause of the corruption of our moral sentiments."

The only part of society who truly has looked after the poor has been the church. But I'm guessing you do not admire the church. So I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make here.

The only type of government that can truly steal from the poor is a communist government. They can do it behind the barrel of a gun. That always helps.

 

[Random.Capital]

Same question to you, Maverick, that the other fellow seems to be having a hard time answering. Surely in all the thousands of years and tens of thousands of cultures there must be at least one clear historical example to support the claim...

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Random.Capital:

Same question to you, Maverick, that the other fellow seems to be having a hard time answering. Surely in all the thousands of years and tens of thousands of cultures there must be at least one clear historical example to support the claim...

It's a very ambiguous loaded question.

"Name one "truely" free market capitalist system where the rich *didn't* steal from the poor."

Define truly. Define free market. Define rich. Define poor. You can use semantics to make these words fit into whatever point you are trying to make. Give me an example of how the rich can even possibly take anything from someone who has NOTHING. Doesn't that defy the law of common sense? I'm being honest here, your question is just not very specific. I can give you specific examples of communists stealing from the poor. I can give you specific examples in my own family. I can give you very ugly, depressing and explicit details of that. But when you make a broad statement, you are the one who has to provide the clarity, not Hello or myself. Do you care to do that? I'll give you an honest reply if you can.

 

[Grandluxe]

"No servant can serve two masters,
for either he will hate the one and love the other,
or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.
You cannot work for both God and money."
The Pharisees, who were lovers of money,
heard all these things, and they ridiculed Jesus.

(Luke 16:13-14)



Blessed are you poor,
for yours is the Kingdom of God.
. . . . But woe to you who are rich,
for you have received your credit.
--Jesus (Luke 6:24)

So likewise, whoever of you
does not forsake all that he owns
cannot be My disciple.
--Jesus (Luke 14:33)



Give to everyone who asks of you.
And from him who takes away your goods
do not ask them back.
And just as you want people to do to you,
you also do to them likewise.
. . . . And if you lend to those
from whom you hope to receive back,
what credit is that to you?
--Jesus (Luke 6:30-31, 34-35)

But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation,
into a snare, into many senseless and hurtful desires
that plunge men into ruin and destruction.
For the love of money is the root of all evil;
it is through this craving
that some have wandered away from the faith
and pierced their hearts with many pangs.
--Apostle Paul (1 Timothy 6:5-10)

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from Random.Capital:

As Engels once wrote...

"This disposition to admire, and almost to worship, the rich and powerful, and to despise, or at least neglect persons of poor and mean conditions, though necessary both to establish and to maintain the distinction of ranks and the order of society, is, at the same time, the great and most universal cause of the corruption of our moral sentiments."

Can only the poor be moral or godly? I think not!

 

[Random.Capital]

Fair enough. How about we start with your definition of what constitutes a "truely" free system, and your historical example of an economy that is actually structured in that way.

Meantime, another quote from The Master...

"It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from Maverick74:

It's a very ambiguous loaded question.

"Name one "truely" free market capitalist system where the rich *didn't* steal from the poor."

Define truly. Define free market. Define rich. Define poor. You can use semantics to make these words fit into whatever point you are trying to make. Give me an example of how the rich can even possibly take anything from someone who has NOTHING. Doesn't that defy the law of common sense? I'm being honest here, your question is just not very specific. I can give you specific examples of communists stealing from the poor. I can give you specific examples in my own family. I can give you very ugly, depressing and explicit details of that. But when you make a broad statement, you are the one who has to provide the clarity, not Hello or myself. Do you care to do that? I'll give you an honest reply if you can.

Amen Mav. Fantastic answer, bravo! These "save the world" types are truly twisted and deluded of reality.

 

[Hello]

Quote from Random.Capital:

Name one "truely" free market capitalist system where the rich *didn't* steal from the poor.

If you are implying that America isnt a free market capitalist system, I agree with you. If it was up to me none of these companies would have gotten bailouts via TARP. (even though the vast majority got paid back) But lets be clear about who is getting robbed here, it sure as heck isnt the poor given the fact that they pay nothing in taxes.

Now why dont you answer me this question, if it truly is the poor people who are being robbed in America, why are poor people from mexico flocking to this country at record levels? Do they come here to get robbed from the rich?

 

[antitrust]

Quote from Hello:
I dont even know where you got your 3.3 trillion dollar number from, but lets assume its real.

3.3 trillion a simple search would yield this

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-trillion-in-emergency-aid-during-crisis.html

http://epostmedia.com/federal-reserve-forced-to-reveal-bailout-recipients-of-3-3-trillion/375127/

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/269553-usiscorrupt/120604-3-3-trillion-dollar-give-away

Quote from Hello:

I dont even know where you got your 3.3 trillion dollar number from, but lets assume its real. Tell me how it would be possible for 3.3 trillion to be given away to corporations if the government didnt exist??? Whose fault is it that 3.3 trillion is going to the corporations? It is the government who is handing out the money. The government is the one who is robbing from people. [/B]

the fed gave the money it is a private institution.congress did not vote on it.

There's going to be some kind of hierarchy amongst a group of people in the same geographical area. Weather it's an official government or not. Corporations spend billions lobbing change laws If there was no government there would be no laws to change. Corporate power would get what they want without bribes. So a non-governmental scenario would yield the same result in this situation. The corruption would simply move to the next power structure .

Quote from Hello:
On top of that, who do you think paid the taxes to cover that 3.3 trillion??? Ill give you a hint, given the fact that the bottom 50% of wage earners dont pay a nickle in taxes, it sure as hell wasnt the "poor" people who paid for any of that. All you have done is show me more evidence of the government robbing money, in which the vast majority comes from the rich, and nothing comes from the poor.[/B]

taxes are only one from of wealth distribution. privately created money is another. land grabs is another. corporate collusion and sabotage are another. No bid contracts. privatizing utilities and then quadrupoling the price ( see Enron). an open boarder policy is another. Military support of oil is another. you must take all the WD mechanisms to find the total. Also I never once said i was for taxes or a communist. My posts in previous threads suggest going back to the policies that this country had (which includes no taxes which I have advocated on this site before).

Quote from Hello:



It will never cease to amaze me that communists like you pollute a site which is dedicated to trading/capitalism.

again, unless you consider pre WWII america communist I accept your apology.The anything goes capitalism that posters beraid me with does not exist and is impossible. The selfish greed that claims to be the pillar of capitalism says that individuals will always do what's in there best interest even if the the gains are nefariously gotten.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Quote from Hello:


So again i will ask you, how the hell do rich people "steal" from the poor in a capitalistic society?

well when capitalists make deals with middle east monarchs who claims divine rights ( which capitalistic nations put in power) to the land and resources. I would consider that stealing. don't you?

when citibank,chase ( capitalists) and others bribed leaders of third world countries to put private debt on the public's book during the 70's i consider that stealing. don't you?

When the railroads (capitalists) got land give aways in the post-civil war era i consider that stealing. don't you