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Are all trading courses scams?
- Thread starter eagerbeaver
- Start date
This thread keeps getting better and better. And actually I would think that the hookers would prefer guys with more normal sized implements than a foot long one but that's a tangent we probably don't want to go down.no seminar in the entire world is going to take a person and transform him into a sucessful trader. no one. but some seminars can give you some good ideas. as one post stated, all it takes is one idea to payfor the seminar in five days. BUT usually we have to go through 10 bad ideas before we find the good one and by that time, were either financial or emotionally broke. ive been to a few seminars that have helped. but on the face of it, after i look back, they are so darn expensive and not worth the $2500.00 but all of uss have convinced ourselves we will be transformed into this magical trader at the top of the mountain. in closing, i think it was aaainthebeltway and im sorry if i misspelled your name but your last post a few pages back was absolutely right on. you are so right on. i don't think i would ever go to a seminar again and pay that amount. the last one i went to was linds R's and paid like $900.00 and not at all worth it. but i was ready to be transformed. no luck.
Quote from vr82:
...after i look back, they are so darn expensive and not worth the $2500.00 but all of uss have convinced ourselves we will be transformed into this magical trader at the top of the mountain.
....i don't think i would ever go to a seminar again and pay that amount.
... the last one i went to was linds R's and paid like $900.00 and not at all worth it. but i was ready to be transformed. no luck.
Amen.
Quote from Thunderdog:
As I noted in my earlier post, I think that Mr. Fisher is legitimate. Since you speak so highly of him, what is preventing you from taking his 12-week course and reporting back to us about your improved performance? As for the features in his seminars that you say you now use, have they improved your profitability in a marked and meaningful way over time? (If so, I'm glad to hear it. As I noted earlier, his methods seem interesting, however, I personally do not prefer them.)
The 12 week course for interns has 3000 applicants from which they pick a handful, if picked I would go, than I could report back to you.
Yes, features from the seminar have improved my profitability.
Quote from Thunderdog:
I saw the online seminar (because it was free). It was fairly interesting, and Mark Fisher seems to be quite legitimate. I also read the book on which the seminar is based. The book was better. Even so, I have not adopted his principles into my own trading approach. As a matter of personal preference, I favor my own method. The question is, did you adopt his method into your trading and, if so, did it transform you into a successful trader?
As an aside, knowing what you do about the seminar, what do you think it would be worth if it were a paying seminar? Stated differently, in retrospect, how much would you have paid for the seminar?
I agree that the book provided a more clear description of the methodology, but the seminar gave me a little more insight into the psychology of trading. I don't use everything from ACD to trade, but have added what I felt worked to my own observations. I find the concept of point-of-reference trading the most effective for me, and Fisher's system provides some of those points.
I would say in retrospect that the seminar would be worth it, but the fact is that it's free. The book, the seminar, and a one-month free sub to their website more than likely wouldn't hurt anyone starting out, especially for $50. After ingesting all that information though, I think it still comes down to sitting in front of a chart observing price action all day, every day for a long time. Any methodology simply provides a context for looking at that price action, IMHO.
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:
Most of us are skeptical about courses because they tend to be quite expensive and either offer what could be gained from some research and reading for little or nothing, or are of dubious value.
There are three typical problems. One, the well-chosen example. The teacher shows you several examples of hypothetical trades where his magic technique worked perfectly. He does not show you the hundreds of times it did not.
Two, the curve-fitted system. A vendor shows an amazing p/l curve, astounding backtest numbers and trades that magically picked highs and lows. Unfortunately, for a myriad of reasons he is unable to offer real results from actual trading, although you are assured that he and his partner are highly profitable fulltime traders. The CFTC files are full of vendors who were caught telling this lie. It is relatively easy to curve-fit a system using past data. It's a bit harder to produce results in realtime.
Three, the cult of the guru. The teacher is a famous trader who has won well-publicized contests or been written up in mags or books. What could be better than sitting at the feet of the master? Well, maybe the contests were fixed by a crooked broker, after the book was written he blew up, he could make money in the old days by exploiting connections to analysts or CEO's etc or his methods no longer work.
For a newbie there is no substitute for getting some backtesting s/w and a lot of historical data and crunching it. Find out why oscillators will never work. Find out why MA crossovers will not work to daytrade the ES. Find out for yourself the relationship between stops and profitablity.
Another reason some of these "gurus" win contests is that they enter enough of them, and take huge risks. It doesn't matter if they blew up in 10 contests. If they take enough huge hypothetical risks, they can win one contest, and....abra kadabra...they are "masters."
Quote from SteveD:
If I am understanding what everyone is saying is that a large institution such as Goldman, Fidelity etc just hires a guy, gives him a trading account, shows him the computer screen and says to him "go get'm tiger"??? NO training here, who needs stinking training???
Same with lawyers, engineers, beauticians etc, LOL???
You guys are funny. Simple minded, but funny.
SteveD
You just described the training I had when at Swifttrade!
" shows him the computer screen and says to him "go get'm tiger"??? "
Quote from I Missed Boat:
Another reason some of these "gurus" win contests is that they enter enough of them, and take huge risks. It doesn't matter if they blew up in 10 contests. If they take enough huge hypothetical risks, they can win one contest, and....abra kadabra...they are "masters."
It also helps if you are in collusion with the broker sponsoring the contest. You may wish to refer to William Gallacher's book, Winner Take All, for some interesting reading in this regard:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...8/sr=2-3/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_3/104-1667102-6317505
Hello:
Its 4:27am this morning and I am finished with my days prep works. I want to offer a comment on the idea that "all trading courses are scams".
First, it should be obvious to those capable of abstract thought, that some vendors are sincere, and skilled pros. Admittedly it is hard to find them, and the product they offer may not have the polish that you see in some offerings, but IMHO, thats "where the gold is hidden".
Second, we don't all resonate with each other in the same way. For that reason, the teaching approach offered by one person may or may not be the right one for you.
Third, the "student" has to have a background that allows him/her to make use of the information. I say this because when I review some of the information I have in my library, I see gems of wisdom that really help me now, but that I simply overlooked or did not take seriously at the time.
Finally, I do not agree with the now fashionable practice of asking a vendor or mentor to provide access to financial (trading) records. I believe that people are entitled to privacy with respect to their financial affairs. There are other ways to verify a persons expertise, including the old fashioned way: get references. In my opinion, nothing beats talking to a former student or former client and asking them what their experience was like. Also, if you are going to invest in training, it makes sense to try to develop a relationship with the person offering the training. This takes time, but in the end you will receive better training because you have made a human connection with the person you are working with. Also, if you find this difficult to do, it may be an "early warning sign" that you are working with the wrong person.
Good luck folks
Lefty.
Its 4:27am this morning and I am finished with my days prep works. I want to offer a comment on the idea that "all trading courses are scams".
First, it should be obvious to those capable of abstract thought, that some vendors are sincere, and skilled pros. Admittedly it is hard to find them, and the product they offer may not have the polish that you see in some offerings, but IMHO, thats "where the gold is hidden".
Second, we don't all resonate with each other in the same way. For that reason, the teaching approach offered by one person may or may not be the right one for you.
Third, the "student" has to have a background that allows him/her to make use of the information. I say this because when I review some of the information I have in my library, I see gems of wisdom that really help me now, but that I simply overlooked or did not take seriously at the time.
Finally, I do not agree with the now fashionable practice of asking a vendor or mentor to provide access to financial (trading) records. I believe that people are entitled to privacy with respect to their financial affairs. There are other ways to verify a persons expertise, including the old fashioned way: get references. In my opinion, nothing beats talking to a former student or former client and asking them what their experience was like. Also, if you are going to invest in training, it makes sense to try to develop a relationship with the person offering the training. This takes time, but in the end you will receive better training because you have made a human connection with the person you are working with. Also, if you find this difficult to do, it may be an "early warning sign" that you are working with the wrong person.
Good luck folks
Lefty.