Are all trading courses scams?

[Thunderdog]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

For a newbie there is no substitute for getting some backtesting s/w and a lot of historical data and crunching it. Find out why oscillators will never work. Find out why MA crossovers will not work to daytrade the ES. Find out for yourself the relationship between stops and profitablity.

I agree. However, I have never even used backtesting software, and not just because I'm technologically inept. Rather, I prefer to scroll back and test "by hand" (visual inspection). I suppose it is a lot like travel. you can take a plane and get there sooner, or you can take the train and familiarize yourself with the details of the landscape. I imagine that both approaches have their pluses and minuses. I just personally favor the scenic route.

As for books, most of them have (unintentionally) taught me what does not work.

 

[patefern]

Quote from Thunderdog:

As I said, the book was interesting. But not nearly interesting enough for me to consider a paid seminar/course, and certainly not one for $2,500. In my case, the taste did not whet the appetite.

So let me ask you. Have his methods transformed you from an unprofitable trader into a consistently profitable one over time as a direct and immediate result of his course? If so, any general details you can share about your improved performance would be appreciated.

Wouldn't you think a 12 week course would be more instructive than a book or taped 3/4 hour seminar? I would assume you are more experienced than those who go to seminars that's why you're not interested.

I did not go to the seminar that is on the web, so if your question is based on that, there could be no direct and immediate
transformation.

My interest in Fisher is that he is a trader, not a teacher/author, and has 75 traders trading for him and owns one of the top 50 trading/brokerages (according to Futures magazine). As for general details I have added his opening range, pivot range, and number line to what I currently use.

 

[SteveD]

In all seriousness folks, if one pays around $100,000 for a average 4 year degree from college it seems a little silly to balk at paying $2500 to learn how to make some real money.

One good idea will return that $2500 in 5 days.

What about IBD's trading course with Bill O'Neill?
David Nasser? Pristine? Don Bright?

Anyone ever taken any of these and can give an intelligent critique on them???

SteveD

 

[Grob109]

Quote from SteveD:

In all seriousness folks, if one pays around $100,000 for a average 4 year degree from college it seems a little silly to balk at paying $2500 to learn how to make some real money.

One good idea will return that $2500 in 5 days.

What about IBD's trading course with Bill O'Neill?
David Nasser? Pristine? Don Bright?

Anyone ever taken any of these and can give an intelligent critique on them???

SteveD

One of WJO protoges out of Irvine, CA is terrific. I believe he runs regularly along the coast and in AZ. He did a one day thing the last I knew. He was also on the radio at that time.

He was underbilling for what it was worth a few years ago.

 

[hank rollins]

Quote from patefern:

Fisher trains interns in a 12 week course, so the book and the seminar don't do justice to his methods, just a taste. The new seminar is coming up, www.mbfcc.com, $2500 or free to clients.

fisher rocks. he is one intense dude and an excellent, highly skilled trader. not to mention, the ORIGINAL logical trader.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from SteveD:

In all seriousness folks, if one pays around $100,000 for a average 4 year degree from college it seems a little silly to balk at paying $2500 to learn how to make some real money.

One good idea will return that $2500 in 5 days.

What about IBD's trading course with Bill O'Neill?
David Nasser? Pristine? Don Bright?

Anyone ever taken any of these and can give an intelligent critique on them???

SteveD

Clearly, you have a conviction about this matter. By all means, take the various courses and then kindly report your findings to us. I'm guessing that, while you may come away having learned a few things, with very few exceptions you will likely feel that you have overspent your money in a big way. Since you have such a strong opinion, prove me wrong! If you do, I will gladly eat my words. As I had mentioned in the past, it certainly woudn't be the first time.

As an aside, please recognize that the colleges you refer to are staffed with educators, such as they are. Market "professors," on the other hand, are businessmen and, unfortunately all too often, snakeoil salesmen and dream merchants. If you don't know this yet, I am fairly confident that you will come to know it. Good luck.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from patefern:

Wouldn't you think a 12 week course would be more instructive than a book or taped 3/4 hour seminar? I would assume you are more experienced than those who go to seminars that's why you're not interested.

I did not go to the seminar that is on the web, so if your question is based on that, there could be no direct and immediate
transformation.

My interest in Fisher is that he is a trader, not a teacher/author, and has 75 traders trading for him and owns one of the top 50 trading/brokerages (according to Futures magazine). As for general details I have added his opening range, pivot range, and number line to what I currently use.

As I noted in my earlier post, I think that Mr. Fisher is legitimate. Since you speak so highly of him, what is preventing you from taking his 12-week course and reporting back to us about your improved performance? As for the features in his seminars that you say you now use, have they improved your profitability in a marked and meaningful way over time? (If so, I'm glad to hear it. As I noted earlier, his methods seem interesting, however, I personally do not prefer them.)

 

[libertad]

This is soooo easy.......

None of these individuals/firms have provided any form of monthly statements that would show some hard evidence of true trading abilities....

Since everybody that has a brokerage account receives monthly statements...there is no acceptable reason why they cannot provide them....which they would surely do if they really had them...since no one else does..this would only help their sales...if they really had them....

Simple question....simple answer....

 

[JackR]

I recently attended an all-day (8 hr) course on option trading. Cost - free to the brokerage firm's clients. It was an intermediate level course. In particular they got into the greeks and made them much more understandable to me than they were when I read about them three years ago. Trades primarily dealt with Iron Condors or Calendars. A retail trader does not normally "trade" condors or calendars except under special circumstances. For those not familiar with these option setups, they generally require being held until or very near expiration.

As I said, the course was free. Condors are good for the broker, you use four separate options to set one up. But the course emphasized event risk, the probability of success versus the probability of failure for each individual trade, and the long-term probability of success using the technique repeatedly. It did not tell us we were going to get rich quickly, indeed, the recommended approach was to look for a setup with a 100% profit potential with a 60% probability of success. So was the course a scam?- not in my opinion - was it a trading course - depends on your definition of trading.

 

[Pumpanddump]

Here's my answer:

If you had 12 hookers and 12 guys and you were the only one that the hookers liked because you had a 12 inch dong, would you share your secret with people that want to know how you got such a big dong or would you keep all the hookers to yourself.

If you think about the answer to this question, you will know that YES, most courses are scams. No one, and I mean NO ONE, in this business gives away secrets that are profitable unless they are on their death bed. Plain and simple!!!!