Anti Zeitgeist

[I am...]

Quote from Mathletic:

You are saying that the sense of right and wrong is false? This is what i see as a fundementaly dangerous aspect of religion. In many religions, Catholicism in particular there is a sense of you aren't held accountable for your actions. That you can walk into a little wooden box a horrible person and tell this man everything youve done, knowing full well he cant tell anyone. And walk out a figure of truth and guiding light. And at the same time invent this idea of hell to punish people that do the exact same wrong doings as catholics, the only difference being non-catholics don't ride the pine with padre.

Yes. The sense of right and wrong is false...completely false. It is a concept introduced into a mind that knows only truth because truth is all there is, truly. Is the truth "good"? Relative to what? If you let go of all concepts, what is left? Only truth. It is what it is.

The confessional is a parody. It is not helpful unless it is understood. Perhaps the silliness of it will help you understand: Right and wrong is rediculous. Can you walk into a pine box a dreadful sinner, and walk out a figure of truth and guiding light? This is a parable. The pine box is the world of right and wrong...a place of death. When it is seen as false, yes, you can walk out a figure of truth and guiding light. If you "confess" that you are the maker of the world, as I have confessed, then God is faithful and just to "forgive" you your sin. Consequently, I have the reputation that I am "sinless"...ie. the sinless Son of God. This is only possible if the world of right and wrong is completely false...which it is. What is left after the false is gone? The sinless Son of God.

So I would challenge you to go to confession, and tell the priest that you are the maker of the world. He might say, "Oh, you've been reading that 'I am' character on ET again", and then absolve you. On the other hand, he may not "absolve" you of anything because he may consider the maker of the world to be a sinner. Oops. :eek: That is, he may consider what you say to be blasphemy. Oops. :eek: If you did make the world, it would be blasphemy. But if you say, "I think I may have made the world", then he can absolve you for what you think you did on the grounds that you may have slipped into temporary insanity. And this would be a parody which points toward the truth. The world is something you - the Son of God - think you made/did. So long as you think you did, you must be a sinner. And so, you have denied making it, and covered your tracks. You have been denying it, have you not? But if you only think you have made it, that is something else. Now the world is no longer the "truth"...no longer "reality". And when you let it go as false, what is left standing is YOU...the sinless Son of God...the truth...reality itself.

As you can see, absolution is a psychological remedy involving a paradigm shift amid a paradox. Did you, or did you not make the world? If you did, run like hell and die. Because the world is the ultimate blasphemy, telling reality to shove it up...whatever. :eek: Die, so life can't get a grip on you for your insult. The mind that makes the world is running like hell, in denial, using death as a pre-emptive strike to deny life the satisfaction of triumph. You, a self-concept, are part of this mind. Holographically, you are the entire mind. When you "confess", all you are really doing is admitting that you - this self-concept - may be wrong on account of temporary insanity. Maybe the world is not real...not true. If that is the case, then you did not really "make" anything...at least not in terms of true creation. It must then be a fantasy. Now there is room for truth to come and heal your mind, where before there was no room for the truth of reality. Now, there is a chance that you may not be insane after all.

Trust me. The world is not real. Possibly, the priest will not agree, being in denial himself. If you assert your innocence, he may suggest you shove it up...whatever. He may tell you to go to hell...by telling you you are going to hell. He may be diplomatic about it...or not. In this way, most priests are teaching by way of opposites because they believe the world is real, because they believe in right and wrong. To escape, fade that mindset like you would fade a "bad" trading system. Then thank them for your newfound profits.

If you, too, believe the world is real, you will fall in with the false priests, and resort to fearful myth in order to enforce behavioral modification. "Dangerous"? What do mean, pray tell?

Jesus

 

[I am...]

Quote from I am...:

Paradise is the truth...the only truth...and nothing but the truth. Besides Paradise, there is nothing else, no other truth, no other world or reality. It is totaly true now, and does not wait on time.

Quote from Mathletic:
If this is true what are you waiting for? You're are just deludeing yourself by being on earth. Shouldn't you just kill yourself after you realized this truth you are speaking? If paradise doesnt wait on time, why are you?

Sure enough, every minute spent "on earth" is another minute spent deluding oneself...or not. As "Lord", I determine what the earth will now be for. Instead of hurt, I will use the experience for my healing, converting its purpose. Perhaps I am healed, perhaps I am not. So long as there is anyone "on earth", "I" am not healed. As "Jesus", I am a symbol of one of the "anyone" in the process of being healed. As I am healed, as I let my mind be healed, healing spreads influentially to the rest of the "my" mind which expresses in the world as "they", "them", "us", "we", "our", "he", "she". These words betray a kind of schitzophrenia.

Symbolically, as "Jesus", I emparody a pre-mission period of healing. This is a time when I have no particular imperative except to save myself...my own self-concept from its own false perceptions. It is certainly entertaining to argue with priests and rabbii in the temple, so-to-speak. Been there, done that. This period correlates to some time in the desert, contemplating truth...letting go of the world and the fears that generate it. A savior must be saved, yes? A healer must be healed, no? As healing progresses, there is a growing willingness to "share", as sharing facilitates healing. Healed, the Kingdom of God is shared with all equally. That is the basis of its reality, unlike the world, in which nothing is really shared. The only thing in this world that can be shared are true thoughts...or at least, ideas which point to truth.

At this time, I have no specific mission. I am doing just what I enjoy...sharing. Sharing is for leaving the world...for healing...for learning. The more I enjoy it, the more I want to leave. There will come a time when I have a specific mission. The mission is for saving the rest of my mind...which is the whole world. The mission is something that only I can accomplish in the exodus of that unique part of the worldly labyrinth I occupy as a unique self-concept. Each one has a mission that only "he" or "she" can accomplish, fulfilling his piece in the puzzle that makes up the atoned [re-unified] Son of God. Each one's exodus inspires others to leave, who inspire yet others to exodus. This links the Son of God together in an unbroken chain of atonement.

The mission begins when the self-concept is *surrendered* to the Truth, which then guides the self-concept the final few miles out of the forest of confusion that is the world. As much as the self-concept surrenders, the Truth works through the concept to reach other links in the chain of atonement. The concept will then begin to speak in the first person, ie. "I am the Truth"...as the concept is replaced by the Truth. In this way, the self-concept is saved [from the insanity of Self confusion] through the Truth, being the Truth, to be "saved". As it is guided, as it allows itself to be guided, the self-concept comes to know its Self. As its Self, it speaks for its Self, as its Self, for its Self. Get it? When Self says "me", it also means you. In this way, Self speaks for all, always. The mission begins when the alias "Jesus" is dropped, and "I am"...speaks for its Self.

So why don't I just die? Because that may not speak for Self. Self may have another idea, something that bespeaks the truth...until the concept leaves on its own terms, not on the world's terms.

Jesus

 

[I am...]

Quote from I am...:

This must be put top of mind, and held there, vigilantly, despite what your senses tell you, what your brain seems to teach you, what your memories seem to swear is true, and what your expectations about the future seem to indicate.

Quote from Mathletic:
It seems to me that if god created us, and what you speak of is the fundemental truth behind god. Then what you speak of should be a fundemental building block of the human psyche, not something that needs to be battled with in your own mind. It should be natural, not something you need to put a child through 18 yrs of indoctination from birth to adolecesnts to make them a believer. Often even that doesnt work, as in my case.

The fundamental building block of the human psyche is not natural. So the human psyche is not natural. The human psyche is built on the concept of separation which is not natural to reality. It is not natural to say, "them", "they", "you", "he", "she". These are habits that are learned, making of one mind "creatures of habit". Humanity is what one mind learns to be. The learning process that results in "man" or "many" is unnatural to the one mind. Learning itself is unnatural to a mind that already knows all. It is a learning accomplishment that makes man, quite ingenious, quite curious, quite mad. If the separation seems real, merely congratulate yourself on accomplishing the impossible. Man is the experience of learned helplessness...power used to imprison itself.

Salvation is unlearning. Unlearning is not more natural than learning has been. And yet, whatever you have learned, you can unlearn, though it seem an impossible task. When you decide to unlearn what you've learned, you are already sitting in a classroom that teaches you only what you are not. The world teaches you...is for teaching you...that you are separated from "other" minds. There are no other minds, but that bodies somehow "prove" there are. So the unlearning begins despite all "evidence" to the contrary. Impossible? This is how the world began, despite all reality to the contrary. 18 years is nothing compared to the whatever billions of years of hypothetical nonsense that brings your attention to a very narrow awareness that seems to dictate reality to you. The path back is shorter because even though learning is not natural, what you are learning about IS NATURAL. You are unlearning the unnatural. In this unnatural world, learning about what is natural is the closest anyone can come to getting a "life".

Learning is essentially changing your mind about what you previously thought was true...but wasn't. If a major change of mind seems impossible, small changes can get you there in terms of "lessons". You may start with turning a little water into wine...to learn that your mind is "Lord" of water and wine. If you raise some body from the "dead", the lesson is: death is like sleep...and you must be Lord of sleep too. If you move a mountain, you must be learning that you are Lord of mountains. When your lessons are complete, you understand that you are Lord of all...simply, "the Lord". It is generally not understood that the symbol "Jesus" is of one in the late stages of learning. Miracles are not necessarily a sign of accomplishment. They are for the learner. The learner is learning who he is, one miracle at a time. When miracles become as natural as breathing, then the learner's unlearning is almost complete.

Getting to where you are working miracles may take several smaller lessons. It may take years, for example, before you can come to accept even a superficial understanding of the fact that you are responsible for everything you see, feel and experience. You are Lord, whether you believe it or not. The truth about this is accepted in theory at first. Then as you observe and stay alert, you may gradually come to accept it more and more until the truth is absolutely true in your experience. But until you can come to be willing to accept it, the natural ability to work miracles will remain beyond your experience.

To be "Lord" means that you understand that your experience as "man" is entirely self-made. It is not how *our Father* created us. It is how we have re-created [miscreated] ourselves using the unlimited power our Father gave to us. And this is to hypothetically bump *our Father* out of the picture, that we might be our own creator, our own makers, making our own reality. Hypothetical...that is the operative word here. The world is like a set of blueprints that never got off the drawing board.

Jesus

 

[I am...]

Quote from I am...:

"Good and evil" is a belief that makes the world of time, space and form. It seems to combine them together in various ways. You can look around and observe this belief manifested in so many ways. If you would like help observing such manifestations, let me know. Once you observe them, understand that they are completely false, and serve only to support, maintain, and uphold this world. If you do not look, you are actually protecting the manifestation [an illusion]. And this will be to choose death, because that is the flip-side of "life". True - eternal - life is chosen when you completely let go of the false dichotomy. In the false dichotomy, the living are not alive, and the dead are not dead.

Quote from Mathletic:

I feel like, this wraps up everything you are trying to teach: Ok, its obvious that the concept of good and evil and what makes complete sense as right and wrong controls and is the basis of our world and universe, but forget that cause theres a place waaaayyyy better than the universe, TRUST ME!! How do you get to this place you might be asking yourself? Simple, read this book do everything it says and once a week come over and give me 10% of your pay check, cause what is money any way... its an illusion.

Well, let's just say that what I am asking you to accept is not achieved by answering an average "alter call". I am not asking you to accept that you are a "sinner". Technically, you've already done that...learned that. That's part of the confusion. Not asking you to call yourself a sinner, or call anyone else a sinner. That approach usually involves significant amounts of money, spotless lambs, rams, selected fowl, etc...in regular intervals. Whatever serves the establishment. That's the way of sacrifice. What I ask for, instead, is a little willingness that the truth be true. Everything is innocent...and you are Lord of all experiences/appearances that seem to suggest otherwise. The truth will supply the other 90% of strong will it takes for you to exchange a worthless self-concept for Self...the Truth. Think of it like a 401k matching program, even better. You must be the leader, because you are learning that you are Lord. So invest your willingness first, that the Lord be who he is...through you...inspite of your self-concept. As you do, your willingness will grow, gradually, to full strength...willing only for what is true.

The Lord needs nothing, and so, asks for nothing. The Lord needs only to know himself, asking only for what is already his, that it may know him. You "come to the Lord" not as a "sinner" but as Lord. There are books that teach this...getting into the finer details of extraction from a confusing paradox. You can get them for free or not much more than a song and dance. Here, you are getting the big picture for free. The universe itself, as false as it is, attests to what I am saying...whenever scientists look honestly. The closer you look at anything, it disappears.

The unlearning process that is salvation may involve, at first, an intellectual thought process. Intellectual thought is not natural to reality. Rather, you are converting intellectual thought to serve your purposes...to abandon the kind of thinking that builds this world altogether. You are endeavoring to understand how and why a certain type of meditation is in your best interest.

Why, for example, would you invest any effort in a no-thought meditation...a meditation in which you forget about the body altogether...forget about time...forget about problems...forget about things...forget about every concept you ever imagined. Why, for example, are you sometimes taught to let thoughts go by without getting involved with them? You will not attempt this to any degree until you see the value in it. This may take some degree of unlearning. Or, why would you spend an entire day meditating on a true thought [ie. mantra]? Why would you spend 5 minutes thinking about a true thought, three times a day? An intellectual process - reasoning - will inform you why this is in your best interest. And this is so that such practices can be backed by a more and more undivided faith. In essence, you are preparing to do nothing, which includes thinking nothing, except to be aware. When all there is left of your self-concept but an empty shell of trust, truth will step in with the other 90% that makes up the 100% of what is YOU. YOU are total awareness. YOU don't think...not in the way of the world. In this way, you are approaching YOU with a little bit of awareness, and a willingness to be fully aware...fully awake. Maybe this would take your concept, in its current condition, 2-12 hours a day for two years. Maybe more, maybe less. When the truth dawns upon you, it is unmistakable. That is the moment you wake up to eternal life, eternal bliss, without anymore suffering. Is it worth it? A carefully audited unlearning process will inform you that it is well worth it.

Jesus

 

[AMT4SWA]

Recent Zeitgeist movie was way out in left field and makes too many odd assumptions imo.......plus they are totally missing out on all the self admitted and documented evidence from globalist wealth entities plans (which seem to keep coming true day by day just as scripted).

 

[I am...]

Quote from I am...:

I certainly want to be "brainwashed". Thank you!

Quote from Mathletic:

Pleeeaassee tell me that was a joke. The reason i mailed you asking you to enter into this debate is because i looked at your previous responses and i saw a man like myself, of a great passion to find the truth and the capability and intelect to do so. If this is truly how you feel, i may have been mistaken

You are not mistaken. That was somewhat of a joke...a play on words. I would not want to be mindless. A mind is a terrible thing to waste...on a brain. Get it? Brains are not natural to our mind, as *our Father* created us. Bodies are tools we made to decieve ourselves. Bodies are, lets say, outpicturings of mind. They are 100% mind, appearing to compartmentalize an otherwise unified mind. This is mindlessness. The brain serves to appear as a thinking agent for a mind that has already been compromised by a fanatical *faith* in separate, compartmentalized units of a whole. Actually, the brain is an agent of deception...to the extent that anything in a hypothetical world can be "actual".

Understand, that when "baptism" is progressing, your mind is less aware of a body, and more aware of the truth. When baptism is complete, there is no more body...just the Son of God, in his natural glory, unlimited by anything, mind and spirit as one, mind, serving spirit in truth. The body/brain phenom is mind serving untruth as truth...serving what opposes and is opposite spirit. This leads to slavery, not freedom.

In slavery, the brain is more like a transponder, obeying what impulses are channeled through it. A bird, for example, suddenly turns south for the winter, and finds its way to food over long distance...a distance it may never have traveled before. Maybe it kills some certain thing for its food. Instinct? It is simply processing thought programs. The brain does not initiate thought. The brain is designed to process synthetic thought...thought that is not natural to reality. Brains process the thoughts of whatever it is that is thinking about this world, making it up, crafting its events and circumstances. Humans are not exempt from this. When you want freedom more than slavery, you must begin to identify with the mind that makes the mind that makes this world. The mind that makes this world is a machine, made by YOU, or, YOUR mind. The machine makes machines, like itself, in its own image, which process its thought-scripts.

Truth gradually washes the machine out of your mind. Along with it is washed away its products: bodies, brains...ect. When it is gone, you are set free. Brains are, by design, awash with thoughts which delude. They are sleep-walking...as if hypnotized. Salvation is to break free of an ancient self-hypnosis...dispelling the mind of faulty notions about itself.

Its essential to "get" that the world is a joke on Self. It is awash with irony and confusing concepts that poke fun at Self. A brain? That thinks? This is truly ironic. What has a brain must be a straw man, a straw man argument, pointing in two different directions at the same time, arguing a faulty premise. You do not want one!

Jesus

 

[I am...]

Quote from I am...:

I prefer "reason" over logic. The world is built on logic, and deconstructed through reason. Reason leads toward the truth, logic leads away.

Quote from Mathletic:
This is more of your basing your opinions on your facts. What are your facts? More of your own opinions.

Nothing I say about the world needs to be taken too seriously, since its construction is entirely hypothetical. The truest fact about the world is that there is no truth in it. I am attempting to use words to point out that thought is not neutral. It leads toward or away from truth. Thought leading away from truth is logical...underpinning all forms of mathematics. The process that brings your awareness to where it seems to be is rather boolean, trailing a boolean-like decision tree that reaches back to the beginning of time, and before that to the making of the machine that makes time. The first decision made was that the truth was not true...that separation is the truth...and the truth of oneness is false. The separation concept gives rise to the machine, which proceeds to separate, reproducing as it was produced. Using your mind, it attempts to possess your mind, making you a co-creator in its imaginary kingdom. All other decisions flow from this, selecting among the entirely false, what is "true" among the false...what is "good" among the evil...what is "right" among the wrong. Since separation is true, its now "logical" that you should select, among the separate, what is now "true" for you...what are your facts...what is real [true]. In this way, the world is build much like you would go shopping at Walmart, selecting from among an infinite array of possibilities in terms of size, shape, color, vibration...choosing for yourself your own unique experiences of questionable value. As each separate compartment of mind does this for itself, each remains, in fact, the lord of his own experience. It is for the experience of what is not true that the machine serves your purposes. But in the process, your desire to be special, different and unique betrays you, and puts the machine in charge...for a time.

But that's just my opinion.

Quote from I am...:
It's important to understand that the world, and all of your experiences in it have been brought to you by faith...

Quote from Mathletic:
How so? I feel that every experience is the evidence against faith. Faith is that if you pray hard enough it will rain; that doesn't make it rain. The Precipitation cycle does...

Faith in cycles precipitates precipitation cycles. There are no cycles in reality, which does not change. So cycles are faith in change. Faith in change is a kind of faithlessness toward the unchangeable...an effect of the denial of Self. The weather cycles express belief in good and evil...ie. "good weather" and "bad weather". Good and evil is meaningless. One's good weather is someone elses bad weather. And someone's junk is someone elses treasure.

You may have heard, "the only thing that remains the same is change". This axiom is part of the 'good and evil' belief system that makes up the world. The 'good' is what does not change. The 'evil' is what changes. Combine them together to get permanent change. Can you see how the concept of good and evil serves to obliterate all that is true?

All physical phenom are faith-based...the effects of an ancient faith. You still believe in them, when you "see" them. But you "see" them because you first believed in them. Mountains are faith-based manifestations. They are not true or real. They are maintained by faith. And when faith is withdrawn, they disappear from your "sight". Faith is not obvious when you see things that seem to have always been there. What seems to have always been there is the "evidence" of things unseen, the "substance" of things hoped for. In this way, the world arises out of nothing, based entirely on wishes, wishing, hope and hoping...that what is not true would be true. And when it is seen, it provides all the "proof" you've been hoping for. To this end, you see exactly what you want to see...making you lord of your experiences, regardless.

Jesus

 

[I am...]

Quote from Mathletic:

What I want from you is to explain to me why I should align myself with you narrower view of the world. That the world is fake and Jesus is reality. Not the natural order of things that asks nothing of you, besides the evolution of man. Ism's bring about wars, hatred, hesitation to work together with other Ism's.

Religion is one of the greatest Ism's of our times that threatens humanity. We cannot continue to let this corruption rule our lives. Because if we can free our selves of religion we can catapult our race much closer to a time of peace, understanding, and love for our fellow man. That is the real paradise.

If you align with "me", you align with your Self, that you may remember your Self, that you may experience your Self, as you were created. This is your reality. Jesus is a symbol that points to your reality. The world symbolizes your unreality. Everything in it is a symbol of what you think about yourSelf in terms of opposites. There is nothing opposite YOU, nothing that opposes YOU. So the world is nothing...that opposes you. It is purely hypothetical, a curiosity, a craze, a fad, an experiment, meaningless fun, something you try...once...for the hell of it. It's "reality" is an illusion, made to seem real, seem fun, but not real fun or really funny. It's a joke told backwards, punchline first. No one is laughing...really. Why are you mocking your Self? You are not a victim...can never be a victim. Nothing can be a victim. So why does it appear there are victims? Why does there appear to be injustice? When you align with me, you align with true justice, because you align with your Lordship, obviously in reality, or covertly in appearances. Justice restores to you what is yours...what you have tossed away to play the victim.

The world is a fanatical religion built first on separatism, then victimism. The phenomenon that is called "man" arises out of separatism, that separation may be "true". Separatism, its logic and its effects cannot be overcome while the venom of the phenom has value to you. Man models separatism...expresses separatism. The parts themselves are neutral. They are neither right nor wrong, good nor bad. They are the manifestation of separatist thought, which is a fanatical faith in what is false. The parts are doomed to experience what is false.

Religion, converted for purposes of salvation from such doom, separates instead the false from the true...not the good from the bad. Separatist thinking is false, therefore man is false. Oneness is true, therefore the mind that makes illusions is true. This is YOUR mind, and it is from illusions that YOUR mind is being saved. True religion reverses the effects of separatism, itself a great reversal of reality. True religion restores true oneness to your awareness. Oneness has never changed. Only concepts have lost awareness of it. Oneness is why you remain lord of your experiences, regardless of appearances. Even among concepts, the symbols of oneness seem to offer the greatest "good". They are all substitutes for the true good. Unity, among concepts designed by separatist thought, is an illusion.

Paradise is found in true oneness. True oneness is restored by reversing the logic that builds this world, turning the tables on itself. If my thought processes seem radical, its because the great reversal that is this world is a radical concept from its inception. It represents the destruction of reality. Likewise, reality represents the deconstruction of the illusion. There is no unified utopia to be found among the conceptually separate. It is a carrot held out to keep concepts chasing after illusions. It is an attempt to, magically, combine true with false..."good" with "evil". There can be no such marriage that leads to happiness. Communism, sociallism, capitalism. It's all been tried to death. Perhaps you have heard about other planets in other solar systems that present the picture of utopia. Bravo for them. But the combination of separate states of being with unified objectives is still problematic, and in no way compares to true oneness. So the world is something to be "overcome" completely by the abandonment of separatist ideals. Believe me or not. Time is all yours to consider alternatives. But "I", Self, have all the time in the world to await your final decision about illusions.

Jesus

 

[Forsyte]

Hey Jesus,

Despite the fact I originally came to read about the Zeitgeist movies, I very much enjoyed reading this whole thread and did not care one bit that it was completely off-topic.

I have to say that lately I myself have been thinking a lot about our/my way of perceiving the surrounding environment. I have found some similarities between my findings/opinions and what you have stated throughout the thread. The thought of everything we see/feel/experience is just a projection of ourselves is intriguing, and I have no doubts whatsoever, that it’s true. There is an enormous amount of everyday evidence that we seem to simply overlook or qualify unworthy of our attention. I have read the first 8 books of Carlos Castaneda that talk about the teachings of don Juan, which
actually started me off in the first place. The I looked into Dethlefsen’s books about destiny, fate and mostly illnesses that project our state of mind. All such sources seemed to just kind of suggest or imply, but I have never read anything put in such manner as you put it. And I liked it.

There’s just one major issue that has been bothering me (not sure if that’s the right word) throughout the whole reading, and that’s this : What does the Bible, Jesus or Christianity altogether have to do with all this? Where do they come in? I mean, people who tend to think the way you do are usually not religious in the „traditional“ way. I have to confess, I have never actually read the Bible in its whole, so I have only basic knowledge of it (if any at all) nor have I ever considered myself to „believe in god“ (whatever that means). However, given that we are all creators of our own universe (which I agree with), why would we need a book (Bible) or even a person (Jesus) to believe in? If we are creators living an illusion, isn’t religion a part of it? I really like the „radical“ thiking you present, but I can’t help but point out that in my opinion, picking just one particular part of the illusion and sticking with it kind of breaks the whole deal.

I don’t mean to bring you down or insult you in any way. Honestly, I’m not even sure if I have explained myself at all. The fact that English isn’t even my native language might make things harder for both of us. Anyway, take care!