Anti Zeitgeist
- Thread starter 88888accountant
- Start date
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VxQuPBX1_U&feature=related
Since the Big Bang(s) decision has been a charade.
Jesus
I deal with cause.
Alex deals with effects.
The mind projects,
then the flesh protests.
It's a vicious cycle,
until the mind rests.
We both want freedom,
we seek it differently.
It must be freedom of the body,
or freedom of the mind.
It cannot be both.
Seek freedom of the body,
but at the expense of the mind.
Seek freedom of mind,
and you shall have freedom indeed.
Jesus
"Doubting" Thomas collected some of my sayings.
The following saying echoes what I am explaining here in this thread.
FYI, here are a few more from the same source.
Thomas recorded 70 sayings.
There are 114 in his gospel.
44 were added later and were not what I said.
These are selected from those authentic.
Thomas was eventually ostricized,
and his gospel was censured and attacked.
It disappeared since the fourth century,
and reemerged in 1945 from where it was buried.
Thomas is the oldest surviving gospel.
It demonstrates a divergence in early church,
between the very apostles themselves.
It hints at what the divergence is about:
Origins, power, vision and equality.
Those who thought resurrection was for the body
were unable to interpret correctly what I taught.
They thought what they wanted.
Here is an interpretation of each:
2. The truth is disturbing to the world's way of thinking. Truth yeilds all power.
5. Whats in front of your face is what is in your mind.
11. The whole universe will disappear as you change your mind about it.
17. This information is unlike anything else the world has heard of.
18.Understand your origin from power and life, and you will understand your destiny.
40. The world is outside heaven. It will not last. Only heaven exists.
42. See what is in your mind. Pass by what is in your mind, and let it go.
48. There is power in holiness, in the rejoining of minds, in oneness, in unity.
49. There is only One. Choice returns you to the One from whence you come.
51. An optical delusion hides another world from your sight.
52. Scripture is overrated. The Interpreter is what counts.
70. Truth is within you. The Kingdom is within. What masks it will kill you.
80.The world is a dead body. It's not worthy of you as Spirit.
84. You think some bodies are beautiful? The Spirit surpasses all in awe and splendor.
85. Call no man "father". The Sons of God are not worthy of death.
106. There is power in holiness: Oneness, joining of mind.
111. The world is an optical delusion no longer seen by the living ones.
113. Behind the delusion is a reflection of God's Kingdom, here, now. You cannot see it without spiritual vision.
This last one needs no interpretation.
Jesus
I dont mean this to be an attack, I simply wish to enter this debate because i find it to be an important one.
I am... you seem to want to brainwash people with your reverse logic and your extremely well articulated verses. You also seem brainwashed as well, you speak of being truly open minded but your not. You try to claim what you say is logic but its not. Its your logic because you blindly believe.
Logic is nature's was of revealing the truth. Religion tries to hide and claim some of this logic as it own to mislead people into becoming servants. And like any good servant you must fear your master.
As our understanding of logic and science expands, we slowly but surely disprove religion. I agree that we cannot disprove religion or prove the big bang... yet.
Please give me some logic i can work with
I am... you seem to want to brainwash people with your reverse logic and your extremely well articulated verses. You also seem brainwashed as well, you speak of being truly open minded but your not. You try to claim what you say is logic but its not. Its your logic because you blindly believe.
Logic is nature's was of revealing the truth. Religion tries to hide and claim some of this logic as it own to mislead people into becoming servants. And like any good servant you must fear your master.
As our understanding of logic and science expands, we slowly but surely disprove religion. I agree that we cannot disprove religion or prove the big bang... yet.
Please give me some logic i can work with
Ok. Imagine two lines in the shape of a cross. The horizontal bar represents "good and evil", or, "right and wrong". Put an arrow on each end of the bar as if to point to "forever" in each dirction. The vertical symbolizes true and false. Put an arrow pointing up at the top, and one pointing down at the bottom. Make true point down, and false point up. One arrow points down to earth. The other, up, to Paradise.
Here's the logic: If you believe in "good and evil", or "right and wrong", then you make them the "truth" for you. If you make the crossbar true, your logic will nail you down to the earth forever, as long as you believe it is true. If you will let go of "right and wrong" as a concept that is completely false, you will be released from suffering, and return from where you came...Paradise. Paradise is the truth...the only truth...and nothing but the truth. Besides Paradise, there is nothing else, no other truth, no other world or reality. It is totaly true now, and does not wait on time.
This must be put top of mind, and held there, vigilantly, despite what your senses tell you, what your brain seems to teach you, what your memories seem to swear is true, and what your expectations about the future seem to indicate. Past performance is not indicative of future results. What you think now is what A. influences your future experience, or B. completely releases you from the experience of time altogether.
"Good and evil" is a belief that makes the world of time, space and form. It seems to combine them together in various ways. You can look around and observe this belief manifested in so many ways. If you would like help observing such manifestations, let me know. Once you observe them, understand that they are completely false, and serve only to support, maintain, and uphold this world. If you do not look, you are actually protecting the manifestation [an illusion]. And this will be to choose death, because that is the flip-side of "life". True - eternal - life is chosen when you completely let go of the false dichotomy. In the false dichotomy, the living are not alive, and the dead are not dead.
Jesus
I certainly want to be "brainwashed".
Thank you! First of all, the brain does not actually think. It is more of a transformer of thought. The mind thinks, the brain does it's thing. It does little or nothing, relative to reality. The object, in salvation, is to wash the mind free of obstructive thoughts and beliefs...whatever is not true. This is accomplished by thoroughly running words of truth through your mind, like a crystal clear stream of water, gaining in flow, washing away years of built up bull. This is basically what it means to be "baptized", and it is a process that ends in resurrection, or, the awakening of the mind to its truth. Truth is to be experienced. Before it is experienced, it is grasped through reason, and wanted more than what is false. Once it is grasped through reason, faith is deliberately invested in it. Faith is basically a willingness to let the truth be true. It means that you want it to be true. If you want the truth to be true, faith will follow naturally. You will begin to believe it. Believing it, you will see it, sooner than later...and experience it.
I prefer "reason" over logic. The world is built on logic, and deconstructed through reason. Reason leads toward the truth, logic leads away. There must be a word to describe the process of separating, through reason, true from false, so that you can then desire the true over the false. For me, that word is "religion", but I understand it is a word that has been rendered meaningless or confusing. I am appropriating it for my own purposes, which is to heal my mind. Religion is a vigilant watchfulness about what is true vs what is false...till what is false is obvious, and what is true is sure.
What I am explaining to you is the most reasonable explaination for the appearance of what we call "the universe", and our experiences within it...and how to extract yourself from it, understanding how it is "caused". It does call for a complete reversal of the process that brings your awareness to such a narrowed focus and limited experience.
It's important to understand that the world, and all of your experiences in it have been brought to you by faith...literally blind faith in nothingness...faith that blinds your mind from what is real and true. This has been a process. The process is through Christ. The product, or result is something opposite Christ. The reverse process is also through Christ...giving you what is topmost on your mind. This has been "prayer". So the world is an answer to prayer for you...a gift to self, replacing Self with self-concepts. You could even say that Christ is the process, and so YOU are the process. Bring the truth topmost in your mind, and the truth is all you will know and experience. Bring it topmost, and this is what you are "praying" for...asking for. And whatever you ask for, through Christ, you must be given. So, be aware of what you are asking for and how you are asking for it. It is always delivered to you. Thus far, you have asked that what is not true be "true" and "real" for you. Such is the world.
Jesus
If you will let go of "right and wrong" as a concept that is completely false, you will be released from suffering, and return from where you came... Paradise
You are saying that the sense of right and wrong is false? This is what i see as a fundementaly dangerous aspect of religion. In many religions, Catholicism in particular there is a sense of you aren't held accountable for your actions. That you can walk into a little wooden box a horrible person and tell this man everything youve done, knowing full well he cant tell anyone. And walk out a figure of truth and guiding light. And at the same time invent this idea of hell to punish people that do the exact same wrong doings as catholics, the only difference being non-catholics don't ride the pine with padre.
Paradise is the truth...the only truth...and nothing but the truth. Besides Paradise, there is nothing else, no other truth, no other world or reality. It is totaly true now, and does not wait on time.
If this is true what are you waiting for? You're are just deludeing yourself by being on earth. Shouldn't you just kill yourself after you realized this truth you are speaking? If paradise doesnt wait on time, why are you?
This must be put top of mind, and held there, vigilantly, despite what your senses tell you, what your brain seems to teach you, what your memories seem to swear is true, and what your expectations about the future seem to indicate.
It seems to me that if god created us, and what you speak of is the fundemental truth behind god. Then what you speak of should be a fundemental building block of the human psyche, not something that needs to be battled with in your own mind. It should be natural, not something you need to put a child through 18 yrs of indoctination from birth to adolecesnts to make them a believer. Often even that doesnt work, as in my case.
"Good and evil" is a belief that makes the world of time, space and form. It seems to combine them together in various ways. You can look around and observe this belief manifested in so many ways. If you would like help observing such manifestations, let me know. Once you observe them, understand that they are completely false, and serve only to support, maintain, and uphold this world. If you do not look, you are actually protecting the manifestation [an illusion]. And this will be to choose death, because that is the flip-side of "life". True - eternal - life is chosen when you completely let go of the false dichotomy. In the false dichotomy, the living are not alive, and the dead are not dead.
I feel like, this wraps up everything you are trying to teach: Ok, its obvious that the concept of good and evil and what makes complete sense as right and wrong controls and is the basis of our world and universe, but forget that cause theres a place waaaayyyy better than the universe, TRUST ME!! How do you get to this place you might be asking yourself? Simple, read this book do everything it says and once a week come over and give me 10% of your pay check, cause what is money any way... its an illusion.
I certainly want to be "brainwashed". Thank you!
Pleeeaassee tell me that was a joke. The reason i mailed you asking you to enter into this debate is because i looked at your previous responses and i saw a man like myself, of a great passion to find the truth and the capability and intelect to do so. If this is truly how you feel, i may have been mistaken
I prefer "reason" over logic. The world is built on logic, and deconstructed through reason. Reason leads toward the truth, logic leads away.
This is more of your basing your opinions on your facts. What are your facts? More of your own opinions.
It's important to understand that the world, and all of your experiences in it have been brought to you by faith...
How so? I feel that every experience is the evidence against faith. Faith is that if you pray hard enough it will rain; that doesn't make it rain. The Precipitation cycle does...
What I want from you is to explain to me why I should align myself with you narrower view of the world. That the world is fake and Jesus is reality. Not the natural order of things that asks nothing of you, besides the evolution of man. Ism's bring about wars, hatred, hesitation to work together with other Ism's.
Religion is one of the greatest Ism's of our times that threatens humanity. We cannot continue to let this corruption rule our lives. Because if we can free our selves of religion we can catapult our race much closer to a time of peace, understanding, and love for our fellow man. That is the real paradise.
You are saying that the sense of right and wrong is false? This is what i see as a fundementaly dangerous aspect of religion. In many religions, Catholicism in particular there is a sense of you aren't held accountable for your actions. That you can walk into a little wooden box a horrible person and tell this man everything youve done, knowing full well he cant tell anyone. And walk out a figure of truth and guiding light. And at the same time invent this idea of hell to punish people that do the exact same wrong doings as catholics, the only difference being non-catholics don't ride the pine with padre.
Paradise is the truth...the only truth...and nothing but the truth. Besides Paradise, there is nothing else, no other truth, no other world or reality. It is totaly true now, and does not wait on time.
If this is true what are you waiting for? You're are just deludeing yourself by being on earth. Shouldn't you just kill yourself after you realized this truth you are speaking? If paradise doesnt wait on time, why are you?
This must be put top of mind, and held there, vigilantly, despite what your senses tell you, what your brain seems to teach you, what your memories seem to swear is true, and what your expectations about the future seem to indicate.
It seems to me that if god created us, and what you speak of is the fundemental truth behind god. Then what you speak of should be a fundemental building block of the human psyche, not something that needs to be battled with in your own mind. It should be natural, not something you need to put a child through 18 yrs of indoctination from birth to adolecesnts to make them a believer. Often even that doesnt work, as in my case.
"Good and evil" is a belief that makes the world of time, space and form. It seems to combine them together in various ways. You can look around and observe this belief manifested in so many ways. If you would like help observing such manifestations, let me know. Once you observe them, understand that they are completely false, and serve only to support, maintain, and uphold this world. If you do not look, you are actually protecting the manifestation [an illusion]. And this will be to choose death, because that is the flip-side of "life". True - eternal - life is chosen when you completely let go of the false dichotomy. In the false dichotomy, the living are not alive, and the dead are not dead.
I feel like, this wraps up everything you are trying to teach: Ok, its obvious that the concept of good and evil and what makes complete sense as right and wrong controls and is the basis of our world and universe, but forget that cause theres a place waaaayyyy better than the universe, TRUST ME!! How do you get to this place you might be asking yourself? Simple, read this book do everything it says and once a week come over and give me 10% of your pay check, cause what is money any way... its an illusion.
I certainly want to be "brainwashed". Thank you!
Pleeeaassee tell me that was a joke. The reason i mailed you asking you to enter into this debate is because i looked at your previous responses and i saw a man like myself, of a great passion to find the truth and the capability and intelect to do so. If this is truly how you feel, i may have been mistaken
I prefer "reason" over logic. The world is built on logic, and deconstructed through reason. Reason leads toward the truth, logic leads away.
This is more of your basing your opinions on your facts. What are your facts? More of your own opinions.
It's important to understand that the world, and all of your experiences in it have been brought to you by faith...
How so? I feel that every experience is the evidence against faith. Faith is that if you pray hard enough it will rain; that doesn't make it rain. The Precipitation cycle does...
What I want from you is to explain to me why I should align myself with you narrower view of the world. That the world is fake and Jesus is reality. Not the natural order of things that asks nothing of you, besides the evolution of man. Ism's bring about wars, hatred, hesitation to work together with other Ism's.
Religion is one of the greatest Ism's of our times that threatens humanity. We cannot continue to let this corruption rule our lives. Because if we can free our selves of religion we can catapult our race much closer to a time of peace, understanding, and love for our fellow man. That is the real paradise.