America has second worst newborn death rate in modern world

Say the mailman is the worst hypocrite in the history of the world.

Does that change in any way the truth or falsity of the mail he delivers?

You just don't seem to understand why the perpetual ad hominem attacks are so futile, so illogical, and so missing the point....

I get it already, a bunch of people at ET don't like me.

Okay, then they can put me on ignore.

They can deal with the issue of the thread, which is babies dying, or they can focus on me.

I see nothing but insanity to focus on me, rather than the real issue here, that is we have babies dying, and no one from the right wing is offering any real compassion or solutions....

Quote from jzlucas:

No. This is simply about the dozen or so posters (including me) that question your continued hypocrisy. Instead of answers, we get personal attacks or better yet our post deleted!

I do appreciate a response this time rather than the usual...
Z10 - Click > Your Account > Private Messaging > resinate > "Could you help me out again... thanks".
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Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

You just don't seem to understand why the perpetual ad hominem attacks are so futile, so illogical, and so missing the point....

I get it already, a bunch of people at ET don't like me.
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YOU attacked all the conservatives on this board claiming we have "no concern, compassion etc. for the children." A false claim in my opinion. I simply responded with a valid question/ point concerning YOUR compassion that seems to contradict your original claim.
That's healthy debate, you should be able to deal with it if you lose an argument rather than rely on someone to cover your tracks for you. J
 
I have not seen much compassion on this thread from the ET wingers.

jem at least showed a bit....

What I saw for the most part was that it was the mother's fault, too bad, not a societal problem.

You continue to display your fixation in the last line, sorry for you.

Oh well....

Let's see what happens now with the current moderation of chit chat....


Quote from jzlucas:

YOU attacked all the conservatives on this board claiming we have "no concern, compassion etc. for the children." A false claim in my opinion. I simply responded with a valid question/ point concerning YOUR compassion that seems to contradict your original claim.
That's healthy debate, you should be able to deal with it if you lose an argument rather than rely on someone to cover your tracks for you. J
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Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:


You continue to display your fixation in the last line, sorry for you.

Oh well....
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I continue to display facts in the last line. Are you going to attempt to deny the fact that resinate has saved you literally dozens of times?
 
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
I said the goverment is preventing expectant mothers from getting prenatal health care?

I sure would love to see that quote....

With your tongue in Bush's ass, suggesting my concern is to smear Bush and not see that we have better health care and support for expectant mothers is par for the course of the right wingers....

I can just as easily apply the same idiot logic, and say, supported by the fact that right wingers cry for the unborn, yet do little about prenatal care, that you care not for the death of babies, but just want to defend Bush...

What is most shocking, and of course par for the course, is absolutely no compassion, no concern, nor any real car for the fact that we have so many babies die after childbirth from the right wing, you know, the party of the "compassionate" conservative.

I said we need to do a better job helping expectant mothers, and your response is this garbage?

Oy vey.... [/B]
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Here you go again. I asked you how more money towards health care is going to help the situation and your response was more money for pre-natal care. Why do we need more money for pre-natal care unless you believe there is an insufficient amount at present? If there is not enough money being given to pre-natal health care, then wouldn't that mean that the government is not doing enough for these mothers. So when you act like I am putting words into your mouth, you should look at what you are saying first and why I would infer that this is your point.

Explain what is not being done to provide pre-natal care to mothers who need assistance. It is easy to just blurt out that there is not enough money without providing any evidence to support it. I have given you plenty of evidence as to why many infants are dying, which has to do directly with the person that is pregnant.

You then go on to say that conservatives have no compassion for the babies because they do not want to throw more money at the problem. I don't believe in throwing money at anything until I understand the underlying reasons for the problem. More money towards pre-natal care does not stop drug addicts from continuing their habit.

Now it is your turn to find a one liner in this post to nitpick that has nothing to do with the discussion.
 
You have to understand that Z10 and others like him feel that there is a monetary amount that when reached will make everything ok. You will not find them PHYSICALLY in the inner cities helping to EXPLAIN to the people who are distressed what they MUST DO, OR MUST STOP DOING, to make their lives better. The answer for them is a government program filled with documents, information, videos, shots and beds that will make things work better. That is nothing more than a "feel good about what our money is doing" solution!

I spend time working with youth trying to help address the warped mindset of many of the kids who are having kids. I talk to inner city youth, especially males, who feel that it evidences their graduation into manhood when they father children. I have had numerous conversations with kids that form their personal success measuring around their expectation to live a short life and the need to make sure that they have several offspring. None of this thinking will change because you, the taxpayer, open a new medical and counseling facility with beds, medicine, and folks who want to listen.

You have to attack this problem at the beginning, the illogical thinking! Not after the pregnancy has happened. And just telling a young mother that she must stop smoking and doing drugs and now eat better to help with the birth process is not going to cut it either. Dietary interests and abilities are woeful. These are KIDS. They can't cook. They can't care for themselves outside of fast food. Nor do many of them care to.

We, in the African American community, have some real esteem and self-care issues. And we're working on them. But you all need to understand that the real answer here is not more money from you the taxpayer! :)


Quote from drmarkan:

Here you go again. I asked you how more money towards health care is going to help the situation and your response was more money for pre-natal care. Why do we need more money for pre-natal care unless you believe there is an insufficient amount at present? If there is not enough money being given to pre-natal health care, then wouldn't that mean that the government is not doing enough for these mothers. So when you act like I am putting words into your mouth, you should look at what you are saying first and why I would infer that this is your point.

Explain what is not being done to provide pre-natal care to mothers who need assistance. It is easy to just blurt out that there is not enough money without providing any evidence to support it. I have given you plenty of evidence as to why many infants are dying, which has to do directly with the person that is pregnant.

You then go on to say that conservatives have no compassion for the babies because they do not want to throw more money at the problem. I don't believe in throwing money at anything until I understand the underlying reasons for the problem. More money towards pre-natal care does not stop drug addicts from continuing their habit.

Now it is your turn to find a one liner in this post to nitpick that has nothing to do with the discussion.
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Quote from canyonman00:

You have to understand that Z10 and others like him feel that there is a monetary amount that when reached will make everything ok. You will not find them PHYSICALLY in the inner cities helping to EXPLAIN to the people who are distressed what they MUST DO, OR MUST STOP DOING, to make their lives better. The answer for them is a government program filled with documents, information, videos, shots and beds that will make things work better. That is nothing more than a "feel good about what our money is doing" solution!

I spend time working with youth trying to help address the warped mindset of many of the kids who are having kids. I talk to inner city youth, especially males, who feel that it evidences their graduation into manhood when they father children. I have had numerous conversations with kids that form their personal success measuring around their expectation to live a short life and the need to make sure that they have several offspring. None of this thinking will change because you, the taxpayer, open a new medical and counseling facility with beds, medicine, and folks who want to listen.

You have to attack this problem at the beginning, the illogical thinking! Not after the pregnancy has happened. And just telling a young mother that she must stop smoking and doing drugs and now eat better to help with the birth process is not going to cut it either. Dietary interests and abilities are woeful. These are KIDS. They can't cook. They can't care for themselves outside of fast food. Nor do many of them care to.

We, in the African American community, have some real esteem and self-care issues. And we're working on them. But you all need to understand that the real answer here is not more money from you the taxpayer! :)
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Thank you for the great post. This is exactly what I am driving at. Z10 wants to say that I have no compassion for people because I do not feel that throwing more money at a problem can fix it. I think trying to throw more money at something without trying to actually fix it is non-productive.

Your line "feel good about what our money is doing", could not be more accurate. When we put up more money and the same results occur, then we have to sit back and ask ourselves what really needs to be done. Of course, if it doesn't change, there are those out there who will just say we need to throw MORE money at the problem.

Your involvment in the community is commendable. This is what we actually need more of. I volunteered as a tutor through the no child left behind act for a long time and found it to be rewarding for the most part. I had children with the mindset you are discussing as well though. It was frustrating to see because you could see the path they would choose once they got to high school, and it was not going to be a positive one. Keep up the good work and thanks again for your perspective.
 
Res has saved nothing. He has selflessly done his job, plain and simple.

Please get on topic.

This thread is not about me, it is about death of children.

If you don't cease with this fixation of yours on me, as I am not the topic, nor is res, I will be forced to complain to the moderators of chit chat.

Quote from jzlucas:

I continue to display facts in the last line. Are you going to attempt to deny the fact that resinate has saved you literally dozens of times?
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Where did I say we need to spend more money?

I have stated clearly that we, yes we, as a society have a problem, that has not improved under Bush.

I also said we need to do a better job at providing what is necessary to increase the chance that a mother will deliver a healthy baby.

Is anyone against that? Are we as a society happy, content, satisfied to see our infant mortality rate high?

Where is our drive to be the best? Why don't we want to have the best prenatal care, the lowest infant mortality rates possible?

Really, I am shocked that there is so little outrage and concern at the number of babies who don't survive...

If this means outlawing sales of liquor, drugs, junk food, etc. to expectant mothers, why not?

If it means doing a better job with the money we do spend, fine.

If it means spending more money, fine.

If it means spending less, fine.

The bottom line is that we do have a problem....yes, we do have a problem and there are little solutions offered by the right except to blame the mother....

Quote from drmarkan:

Thank you for the great post. This is exactly what I am driving at. Z10 wants to say that I have no compassion for people because I do not feel that throwing more money at a problem can fix it. I think trying to throw more money at something without trying to actually fix it is non-productive.

Your line "feel good about what our money is doing", could not be more accurate. When we put up more money and the same results occur, then we have to sit back and ask ourselves what really needs to be done. Of course, if it doesn't change, there are those out there who will just say we need to throw MORE money at the problem.

Your involvment in the community is commendable. This is what we actually need more of. I volunteered as a tutor through the no child left behind act for a long time and found it to be rewarding for the most part. I had children with the mindset you are discussing as well though. It was frustrating to see because you could see the path they would choose once they got to high school, and it was not going to be a positive one. Keep up the good work and thanks again for your perspective.
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Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Res has saved nothing. He has selflessly done his job, plain and simple.

Please get on topic.

This thread is not about me, it is about death of children.

If you don't cease with this fixation of yours on me, as I am not the topic, nor is res, I will be forced to complain to the moderators of chit chat.
More...

The fixation is even worse than you think. That's why hapaboy created his "moderate" alterego jzlucas. I think he's in love LOL!
 
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