America has second worst newborn death rate in modern world

[PoundTheRock]

These mortality rates are not so bad compared with the rates of pet gerbils. See, usually parents buy a couple of gerbils for their kids, then the gerbils mate, and have a litter of about a dozen little pink baby gerbils. The problem is that the kids forget to feed the gerbils, so the gerbil parents end up eating all the little pink baby gerbils. In this case, I'd say the mortality rate is above average but it doesn't matter because the kids are wondering where all those cute little pink baby gerbils went.

So what exactly is the point of mortality rates? Or are people fretting that the United States is not the best at anything except for nukes per capita?

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

I did look at your "facts" however, they are meaningless if used independently of all facts on demographics of mothers in all modern countries.

To make any evaluation of the US cause and effect, why we have the 2nd worst infant mortality compared to the modern world, we need to compare all factors.

You have not done so.

Teen pregnancy, drug/alcohol abuse, poor nutrition, lack of education...are they solely a US issue?

If they are, then we need to do a better job here.....

Quote from drmarkan:

Did you even read my post?

At least this time you attempted a retort. However, it points to your unwillingness to look at the facts. If women want to live a life in which they do harm to their baby and quite possibly kill it, how does throwing more money at health care going to stop this problem? My statement is that irresponsibility on the part of the mother through drug use during pregnancy, smoking during pregnancy, and drinking during pregnancy are things that putting more money towards health care will not prevent.

As I pointed out earlier, birth defects are a lot more probable for teens having children because they are not fully developed as well. Teenagers should not be getting pregnant. It is a mistake brought on by irresponsible behavior. The birth defects are something that cannot be prevented in many of these cases because the girls own body is not ready for pregnancy. Not to mention they are less likely to go get prenatal care due to the fact that they do not want their parents to find out.

If you can tell me how more money for health care is going to stop drug abusers, alcoholics, and cigarette smokers from doing these things during pregnancy, I'd love to hear it. I also want to know how more money towards healthcare is going to stop two teenagers from making the mistake of getting pregnant.

My previous post discussed that pre-natal care is not hard to get for low income families so using this excuse is not merited. Please enlighten me.

 

[drmarkan]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

I did look at your "facts" however, they are meaningless if used independently of all facts on demographics of mothers in all modern countries.

To make any evaluation of the US cause and effect, why we have the 2nd worst infant mortality compared to the modern world, we need to compare all factors.

You have not done so.

Teen pregnancy, drug/alcohol abuse, poor nutrition, lack of education...are they solely a US issue?

If they are, then we need to do a better job here.....

Can you answer the question? How does more money towards health care prevent these issues?

 

[Sam123]

Everyone knows the infant mortality rate is higher in under-developed countries because EVERYONE is trying to have as many children as possible, including women physically less-fit to have a successful birth. In developed countries, not everyone has children. And perhaps women who are less fit to have children choose not to have children. So when you look at the number of deaths per 1000 births, you must also look at the breadth of women in a population trying to have children. You will see a correlation. So it’s not poverty and lack of education. Its biological fitness in a population of women, and cultures that encourage all women to have children, despite their fitness.

The only link you can make is that underdeveloped nations require large families to do the labor required for their survival. They also have more children to offset the higher chance of infant mortality. But when the West goes to Africa and tries to fend off its self-loathing guilt by saturating the continent with gobs of cash and technology and so-called “education,” what do the Africans do? They have even more children! The population explodes, everyone gets hungry, sick and pissed off, and everything falls apart.

Comparing the mortality rates between developed nations is negligible and almost silly. Nevertheless, the reason why America is the second worst on the list is because too many people from under-developed countries (*cough* *cough* Mexico) come here and they bring their cultural reproductive habits with them. Everyone in Mexico tries to have children, which explains their 22 out of 1000 births mortality rate. And when they come here to pop out their anchor babies in droves, they all try to do it –including less healthy women-- just as they would do in Mexico.

Want a solution? Deny citizenship to anchor babies. Make English the national language. Deny education and public benefits to illegals. Penalize businesses that hire illegals. Watch all of them return to Mexico and they will take their infant mortality rates with them.

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

From the article:

The research also found that poorer mothers with less education were at a significantly higher risk of early delivery. The study added that in general lower educational attainment was associated with higher newborn mortality.

According to the data, poverty and lack of education is a major factor, which can be solved....

The right wingers are not talking about solutions here, which surprises me because of the constant crying about "the unborn child" and the sanctity of human life....

 

[drmarkan]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

I did look at your "facts" however, they are meaningless if used independently of all facts on demographics of mothers in all modern countries.

To make any evaluation of the US cause and effect, why we have the 2nd worst infant mortality compared to the modern world, we need to compare all factors.

You have not done so.

Teen pregnancy, drug/alcohol abuse, poor nutrition, lack of education...are they solely a US issue?

If they are, then we need to do a better job here.....

Let's evaluate your post here. You put quotation marks around the word facts when I told you I pulled all of this off of the CDC's website. So the CDC doesn't know what they are talking about, but you do. In your own words, Oy Vey.

You discuss other factors that we have to look at. The ones I listed seem like the major factors to me. If there are others you would like to address, please let me know what these other factors are. I hope you will tell me a couple of other factors you would like to discuss so I can address those for you.

The fact that doctors say that we can reduce infant mortality rates by 25% if women did not smoke during pregnancy seems like a big deal to me. I know we have to look at all modern countries as a whole right? The New South Wales institute did a study of mothers from every region in the world. They found that English speaking mothers were twice as likely to smoke as mothers from ANY other region. Especially during the second half of pregnancy which is more critical.

I can't believe that you are unable to concede the fact that irresponsibility of a pregnant mother who takes risks isn't a major factor in infant mortality. Can you at least admit that what these mothers are doing is wrong?

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Prenatal health care includes education on nutrition, paying for more nutritions food where necessary, explaining the danger of drug use, funding to help women who have substance abuse issues into treatment, etc.

We need to treat the women who are in enganged in behaviors that risk the life of the "unborn child".....

Don't we?

Or do we really care about the "unborn child?"

Quote from drmarkan:

Can you answer the question? How does more money towards health care prevent these issues?

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from drmarkan:

So the CDC doesn't know what they are talking about, but you do.

If there are others you would like to address, please let me know what these other factors are. I hope you will tell me a couple of other factors you would like to discuss so I can address those for you.

I can't believe that you are unable to concede the fact that irresponsibility of a pregnant mother who takes risks isn't a major factor in infant mortality. Can you at least admit that what these mothers are doing is wrong?

Zzzztroll is toying with you, drmarkan.

Of course your argument is entirely logical, whilst his is nonsensical. Zzzztroll likes to drive people crazy by going in circles, causing them to ask him over and over to explain himself, which he never does. He'll drop a crumb here and there to make you think he wants to engage in rational discussion, but it's just a ruse to draw you in so he can commence with further obfuscation.

Since I have written this, he will drop a couple of crumbs to put doubt in your mind, but it's all for naught.

Finally, don't go too far in pointing out his numerous fallacies. His pet moderator, Resinate, is at his beck and call 24/7 to delete those posts that do so.

What did I tell you? His last post = crumbs.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

You have made no case via fact that expectant mothers in other countries are putting their child at lesser risks than American women.

I am not in disagreement that what a woman does to her body while pregnant is not a factor in the life or death, or health of her child.

If a primary cause of mortality rates is the health of the mother, the question is why are more American women taking these risks against their health per ca pita than other countries?

Or is there another factor that influences American mortality rates.

One thing is certain, there is much less stress for an expectant mother if her health care is assured, if her food and shelter is assured, if the society will take care of pregnant women, and see that they are cared for after the child is born.

Our society is failing in this area, obviously....

Quote from drmarkan:

Let's evaluate your post here. You put quotation marks around the word facts when I told you I pulled all of this off of the CDC's website. So the CDC doesn't know what they are talking about, but you do. In your own words, Oy Vey.

You discuss other factors that we have to look at. The ones I listed seem like the major factors to me. If there are others you would like to address, please let me know what these other factors are. I hope you will tell me a couple of other factors you would like to discuss so I can address those for you.

The fact that doctors say that we can reduce infant mortality rates by 25% if women did not smoke during pregnancy seems like a big deal to me. I know we have to look at all modern countries as a whole right? The New South Wales institute did a study of mothers from every region in the world. They found that English speaking mothers were twice as likely to smoke as mothers from ANY other region. Especially during the second half of pregnancy which is more critical.

I can't believe that you are unable to concede the fact that irresponsibility of a pregnant mother who takes risks isn't a major factor in infant mortality. Can you at least admit that what these mothers are doing is wrong?

 

[jem]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

So, if I understand your logic, our statistics are bad because of the Catholic Church?

Oy vey....

No zzz it is your thinking that is to be blamed. With nothing but bigotry and trollness you manufacture an argument. Fine. But then you try to associate your faulty understanding of statistics with right wing people who wish to promote life.

I was pointing out the pro life people are also people who wish to keep sick premies alive. Thus contributing to the high infant death rate.

The overarching point is you think this high infant death rate is some sort of problem Yet you can not prove it is anything but our doctors, nurses and NICU medicine keeping babies alive that other countries allow to die.

While many of these sick babies do die and contribute to the high infant death problem Some do live, and some live to be healthy.
Now I am not necesarily in favor of having the State pick up the tab for these heroic measures. It is a debate that needs to be considered. That debate is obvously too sophisticated for trolls.

P.S.
would someone please cite a study that says that babies born to drunk or drug addicted mothers are a significant cause of the high infant death in the U.S. I think you guys are arguing facts not in evidence.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

You are sounding senile jem.

Seriously....

Quote from jem:

No zzz it is your thinking that is to be blamed. With nothing but bigotry and trollness you manufacture an argument. Fine. But then you try to associate your faulty understanding of statistics with right wing people who wish to promote life.

I was pointing out the pro life people are also people who wish to keep sick premies alive. Thus contributing to the high infant death rate.

The overarching point is you think this high infant death rate is some sort of problem Yet you can not prove it is anything but our doctors, nurses and NICU medicine keeping babies alive that other countries allow to die.

While many of these sick babies do die and contribute to the high infant death problem Some do live, and some live to be healthy. I have watched couples come up to my wife years later and thank her and the hospital for saving their premie. In a way that shows the true compassion of the right wing has, the right wing you so love to hate.

Now I am not necesarily in favor of having the State pick up the tab for these heroic measures. It is a debate that needs to be considered. That debate is obvously too sophisticated for trolls.