Alexis Tsipras' "open letter" to German citizens

[Tsing Tao]

Your ridiculous claim of laying the blame on the EU, ECB, and IMF how they dared to force all that evil funding up Greece's throat. Greece took it, signed the paper and is held liable.

After that all three bodies have made numerous concessions. I think nobody on this planet holds the belief that Greece is able to service all its debt on its own. But what everyone counted on is that Greece delivers on restructuring its frivolous spending habits, in short it agreed on the naughty term austerity. That they give up so quickly was indeed a shock to many if not most. Greece can now choose to default after they rejected to work out to restructure. That is their right but they have to live with the consequences. And the Greek people have made it crystal clear that they are not willing to live with the consequences. Why do you think they have not yet defaulted? Think for one second. It is because they believe that extortion will gain them more. Unfortunately there sit plenty European socialist assholes in parliament who are more afraid about "market turbulences" than sending a strong message. The EU can be faulted for the fact that it does not stand united behind a clear directive.

Agree wholeheartedly on almost all of this. Never said the Troika forced anyone to take a loan. Greece took it, signed the paper and is indeed liable.

The Troika either knew they wouldn't be able to pay back so much money, or should have known, or didn't care because they intended the money to go to their financial institutions.

Glad you agree that Greece cannot service all of it's debt on it's own.

Also agree that it was shocking how fast Greece abandoned austerity, but anyone who had been following the political polls on the ground should have seen that coming. It's not like Syriza came out of the clear blue.

Also agree that the Greeks are playing a bluff in the hopes that they can get concessions from the EU. I'll go one step further and say that Spain and Portugal and even France might be willing to give those concessions because they know they might be able to get relief some day down the road if they create precedent.

But you insisting for ages that a bank in a mortgage loan default is equally liable and at fault, you saying that the ECB, EU, and IMF are to be blamed for forcing Greece to accept a bailout is outright ludicrous. They can be blamed in a 50 years when looking back for not potentially having found a better way to save Greece but Mr. TsingTao walking along and pointing his gay cane at European institutions and directly suggesting that Greece was intentionally fed poisoned food is pretty much beating it all.

Has it been ages already? A bank that lends to a customer that isn't creditworthy (and knows this but does it anyway) has to look in the mirror when assigning blame. This doesn't mean the creditor who defaults is guiltless at all.

I do, however, note you bringing homosexuality into this and calling me gay as a way of further illustrating your inability to argue without resorting to name calling. Well done!

 

[Tsing Tao]

well the problem was that you know shit about Greece but pretend you do. And you backed up your "expert knowledge" with a honeymoon stay in Greece years ago...shall I say more?

I'm sure you'll say more whether or not anyone wants it. It's what you do.

I didn't back my knowledge up on a honeymoon in Greece. Even if you like to pretend that's what happened.

Keep spamming, though. It's entertaining. Oh, and make sure every post is repeated twice. That way it's sure to convince everyone!

 

[volpunter]

so again, it comes down to you of course having seen this coming and everyone else was either an idiot or had toxic intentions. Lol, not sure you are saying anything different here than your stupid claims I refuted.

Oh, did your gay cane infect you with gayness? I do not remember to having called you gay. Don't be a drama queen please.

Agree wholeheartedly on almost all of this. Never said the Troika forced anyone to take a loan. Greece took it, signed the paper and is indeed liable.

The Troika either knew they wouldn't be able to pay back so much money, or should have known, or didn't care because they intended the money to go to their financial institutions.

Glad you agree that Greece cannot service all of it's debt on it's own.

Also agree that it was shocking how fast Greece abandoned austerity, but anyone who had been following the political polls on the ground should have seen that coming. It's not like Syriza came out of the clear blue.

Also agree that the Greeks are playing a bluff in the hopes that they can get concessions from the EU. I'll go one step further and say that Spain and Portugal and even France might be willing to give those concessions because they know they might be able to get relief some day down the road if they create precedent.



Has it been ages already? A bank that lends to a customer that isn't creditworthy (and knows this but does it anyway) has to look in the mirror when assigning blame. This doesn't mean the creditor who defaults is guiltless at all.

I do, however, note you bringing homosexuality into this and calling me gay as a way of further illustrating your inability to argue without resorting to name calling. Well done!

 

[Tsing Tao]

I didn't say I was the only one who saw this coming. Please link to the post where I said that or where I said someone had toxic intentions. Take your time.

edit: (since you edited)

Ah, you did not mean I was gay, you just mentioned my gay cane. Must have been lost in translation.

 

[volpunter]

thats ok, I found one post on page 3x where you did not appear lost in translation. Though I would rather call it lost in the mace of logic.

You know what you are really good at? Each time someone summarizes what you said you shoot back "I did not say that, show me where exactly I said that". Sure you did not say it word for word but the point you made was exactly that. What is the point to debate if nobody can ever hold you by the meaning and intentions of your words?

I didn't say I was the only one who saw this coming. Please link to the post where I said that or where I said someone had toxic intentions. Take your time.

edit: (since you edited)

Ah, you did not mean I was gay, you just mentioned my gay cane. Must have been lost in translation.

 

[Tsing Tao]

thats ok, I found one post on page 3x where you did not appear lost in translation. Though I would rather call it lost in the mace of logic.

You know what you are really good at? Each time someone summarizes what you said you shoot back "I did not say that, show me where exactly I said that". Sure you did not say it word for word but the point you made was exactly that. What is the point to debate if nobody can ever hold you by the meaning and intentions of your words?

Are you going to link to where I said that I was the only one who saw this coming? Or just continue to claim it?

Don't blame me because you read into things I say and take them to mean something completely different. You don't ever summarize anything I say - you just make a whole bunch of new stuff up!

If you want me to clarify some words I wrote, just ask.

As for the point of debating, you don't want a debate. You want everyone to agree with you.

 

[d08]

I'm being the same "ass" you guys were to me when I made comments about having visited Greece. If we're going to require everyone to prove everything, then they should - equally. If we're going to accept anecdotal evidence, then we should do so - equally.

So following that logic, none of the people you know who have taken loans bigger than they should have, have paid it back?

Since you were so adamant before about volpunter answering you if he was German, what's your nationality and ethnicity, are you by any chance of the Jewish persuasion?

 

[Tsing Tao]

So following that logic, none of the people you know who have taken loans bigger than they should have, have paid it back?

Since you were so adamant before about volpunter answering you if he was German, what's your nationality and ethnicity, are you by any chance of the Jewish persuasion?

I didn't make the claim, the author did. You countered it, and I was looking to see if you had data or whether it was anecdotal. I would have normally just accepted that as your personal experience, but you didn't exactly show the same courtesy.

I am not Jewish - I am Catholic, born and raised (though not currently practicing). I don't have any issue with disclosing anything about myself, so long as it doesn't give away private information. Ask away. What's the deal with you guys and the double posts?

 

[volpunter]

it is the logical conclusion when you basically accused EU bodies of either intentionally pushing Greece into a corner it never could recover from or of being grossly negligent and borderline stupid in not knowing that Greece would not be able to recover. You yourself ruled out intentional harm so given the fact that hundreds of billions were and are at stake and claiming anyone would not do their due diligence lends a touch of hubris and arrogance to you. And the logical extension is that given all the experts, who spent weeks if not months in Greece to assess the situation before anyone was bailed out, by your judgement were too negligent or naive points to you believing you know it better than everyone else. Got it now or still unclear?

Do we have to walk through this exercise now every time you say something?

Are you going to link to where I said that I was the only one who saw this coming? Or just continue to claim it?

Don't blame me because you read into things I say and take them to mean something completely different. You don't ever summarize anything I say - you just make a whole bunch of new stuff up!

If you want me to clarify some words I wrote, just ask.

As for the point of debating, you don't want a debate. You want everyone to agree with you.

 

[volpunter]

what double posts? Now we are one and the same? Goodness. What's next.

P.S. I know exactly what is coming next: "I did not say that, show me where I said that"

I didn't make the claim, the author did. You countered it, and I was looking to see if you had data or whether it was anecdotal. I would have normally just accepted that as your personal experience, but you didn't exactly show the same courtesy.

I am not Jewish - I am Catholic, born and raised (though not currently practicing). I don't have any issue with disclosing anything about myself, so long as it doesn't give away private information. Ask away. What's the deal with you guys and the double posts?