A peek inside the Health Care Bill

RangeBar - - o.k., fine. You think things are going to turn out one way - - - and I think they could very well turn out differently.

Youre a middle aged post war boomer who has lived in a world of prosperity. Except possibly in the case of Vietnam, you don't have any experience of the historical events you cited. - - I dont know your personal history, what real difficulties youve had to live through (and you don't know mine). In both of our cases, that's none of anyone else's business. - - But you were the one who started with the whole 'cell phone outage as your only problem' bullshit, not me.

You may be right. No one knows what is going to happen. I don't think its just going to all work out. - - - Sometimes in history, bad shit does happen. Sometimes tomorrow isn't like today or yesterday. - - The point of discussing this isn't to just cry that 'the sky is falling' however. The point, is to alert others so that we might do what we can to avert this. But perhaps you read about some of the details in the possible health care bill and think there is nothing that needs to be averted. - - -

P.S. - - what kind of hunting do you do ?
 
Quote from RangeBar:

You are not going to hear a liberal Dem tell you why this is a 'good thing'. Liberal Dems do NOT think this is good: it is all we could get due to Republicans & conservative Dems caring more about protecting insurance companies than they are in providing Americans with health care.

Liberal Dems want a nationalize health care system that is paid for by everybody and everybody has access. It would be paid for by increasing the federal tax rates 2% for the current 15% bracket, 3% for the current 25%, 6% for the current 34% and 10% for the current 39% bracket.

A plan devised by liberal Dems would remove all footprints of the current 'private health insurance' companies. They provide absolutely ZERO health care to anybody. Multi-million dollar CEO's, middle managers whose sole purpose is DENYING medical care payments, and sales & marketing personel in the health insurance industry are nothing but leeches. Perhaps they could be re-trained into doctors, nurses, and technicians and, finally, actually provide 'health care' to people.

Hopefully, the current plan is simply the camels nose in the tent and, after detroying the current broken system we can effect real health care reform.
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C'mon admit it, you're a relative of Nancy Pelosi. Or a distant cousin of Obama. If you are, we understan the horseshit. Otherwise, it's hard to say where this crap comes from.

It's true there are a number of problems in our health care system. One of them however is not the quality of health care. It's true that some people are not insured. Amongst those are the young, who believe they are invincible and therefore don't need the insurance. Then there are the deadbeats who are busy sucking the blood out of the system. You know, the ones that elected Obama. I say let's just give em the health care. Enroll them in the medicaid program.

Next, let's remove the governmental barriers to insurance. Let people get what they want, wherever it is. They want a program with guaranteed insurability despite pre-existing conditions? Let them pay for it. Just don't saddle the rest of us with the cost. And don't force the rest of us into insurance we don't want.

The government is completely incapable of running any successful enterprise. They've illustrated this sufficiently with the existing medicare program. Then there's the post office. When does social security go broke anyway?

My insurance company drastically reduces doctor charges, hospital bills, etc. I think they do a pretty good job of it. United Healthcare. Why would you socialists want to put them out of business? Why not just remove the barriers to competition, which would force the cost down.

You socialists need quit "spreading my wealth around".

OldTrader
 
Quote from Tigerjaw:

RangeBar - - o.k., fine. You think things are going to turn out one way - - - and I think they could very well turn out differently.

Youre a middle aged post war boomer who has lived in a world of prosperity. Except possibly in the case of Vietnam, you don't have any experience of the historical events you cited. - - I dont know your personal history, what real difficulties youve had to live through (and you don't know mine). In both of our cases, that's none of anyone else's business. - - But you were the one who started with the whole 'cell phone outage as your only problem' bullshit, not me.

You may be right. No one knows what is going to happen. I don't think its just going to all work out. - - - Sometimes in history, bad shit does happen. Sometimes tomorrow isn't like today or yesterday. - - The point of discussing this isn't to just cry that 'the sky is falling' however. The point, is to alert others so that we might do what we can to avert this. But perhaps you read about some of the details in the possible health care bill and think there is nothing that needs to be averted. - - -

P.S. - - what kind of hunting do you do ?
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Glad you wrote back. I assume that you are young and full of angst as everybody is at that point in life. The essence of this post is an attack on the 'health care reform (?) bill'. As usual, the original intent of the post has drifted off into areas unimagined of which I'm as guilty as the next person.

Getting back to the intent of the original question. There is absolutely no other issue that will affect you in the future than your health care. This is true at a personal level in respect to your health habits but also true in respect to the system that our nation puts into place.

You may be currently young, healthy, employed and covered by employer-paid insurance. One day you will not be young, healthy, employed and/or covered by employer-paid insurance. In short, the BIGGEST insecurity that EVERY human faces is their health. President Obama and liberals are simply trying to remove this one major single insecurity from your life. Sure, if you're young, you're going to pay into the system and get 'nothing' in return. However, when you get old, or unemployed, or contract a chronic condition or whatever (and believe me one or more WILL happen), the system will be there for you. There isn't a Veteren or senior citizen in this country who has rejected 'government health care' and went to a private insurance company. (The fact that our government even uses these companies as a conduit to paying claims is absolutely absurd and unnecessary.)

The facts are this: the USA spends more for health care than any other nation and we rank, (estimate) like 17, on the list of 'best countries to live'. Number 2: 60% of all personal bankrupties in the USA in 2007 were due to 'medical expenses'; of those 60% (6 of 10), 4 of them HAD health insurance when they got sick. No other industrialized nation has 'personal bankruptcy' for medical bills !!

The people crying about the current (highly diluted as to not be recogonizable) 'health care reform' bill are doing so because: (1) they have insurance TODAY and don't give a fuck about anybody else (mainly seniors, veterens, employees w/insurance), (2) politians who get donations from insurance companies, and/or (3) people directly employed by health insurance companies.

Stop complaining about people trying to make your life a little less insecure.

P.S.: I deer hunt with a bow and black powder. Hope to get a bear this year in E. TN.
 
I hunt mainly with bow - mountain backcountry backpacking off trail and away from the roads. Usually making 'camp' out of a bivy sack. Elk & mule deer. I hunt black bear, but in my state baits aren't allowed so I call them in and use a handgun - - 454 or 45 Colt usually. - - Used to do a lot of other types of hunting - turkey with bow & shotgun, geese, grouse - - but havent had as much time lately. Same with flyfishing. I also want to spend more time with Search And Rescue work this coming year so that will probably take away some time from other outdoor activities.
Getting away from the 'fun' stuff. - - -

Our views on the efficiency and effectiveness of the govt toward running practically anything are on the opposite sides of the scale. Frankly, I don't know what they run well. Their interference in the market through various programs including Medicare and Medicaid are a major driver of costs. Politicians don't give a damned about costs, just their own political advantages. ("CBO report, we don't need no CBO report.") Follow Canadian politics and you'll see that a major issue in every election is . . . health care access. Politicians milk the issue they created for all its worth. Too bad all those Canadians won't be able to fly to the US and quickly get the healthcare they need - - if this bill passes.

I do have a better feel for your political views and the source of your optimism. (Please tell me youve taken the O. sticker off your car though !) :) My source of optimism is that predictions often turn out wrong - - New Ice Age, Japan Owning the World, Y2K etc, etc, etc. But given such things as the VIX, CNBC, etc - - I don't know if the consensus of 'the crowd' is positive or negative.

Guess we can agree to disagree.

Goood hunting, - -
 
Quote from RangeBar:



Stop complaining about people trying to make your life a little less insecure.

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Please stop trying to make up silly rules to help me for my own good.
All you do is make things FUBAR!
How hard is that to understand?
 
Quote from Index piker:

Please stop trying to make up silly rules to help me for my own good.
All you do is make things FUBAR!
How hard is that to understand?
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I can pretty much guarantee that you have at least one member of your family getting medical care from a government plan. It might be your mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, mother-in-law, father-in-law, grandmother-in-law, grandfather-in-law, sister, brother, daughter or son. In the very unlikely event that this assertion is not true. I can promise you that it certainly will be the case sometime in the future.

I can also guarantee that YOU and/or any of those mentioned above will run into a situation in which the person involved does not have health insurance OR their health insurance company will run away from them as fasd as possible when they do get sick. All of them that DO have 'gov't-based health will be very grateful that they do.

I'm not necessarily trying to help YOU. YOU need to stop thinking about YOURSELF so much too.
 
Quote from RangeBar:

I can pretty much guarantee that you have at least one member of your family getting medical care from a government plan. It might be your mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, mother-in-law, father-in-law, grandmother-in-law, grandfather-in-law, sister, brother, daughter or son. In the very unlikely event that this assertion is not true. I can promise you that it certainly will be the case sometime in the future.

I can also guarantee that YOU and/or any of those mentioned above will run into a situation in which the person involved does not have health insurance OR their health insurance company will run away from them as fasd as possible when they do get sick. All of them that DO have 'gov't-based health will be very grateful that they do.

I'm not necessarily trying to help YOU. YOU need to stop thinking about YOURSELF so much too.
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What part of "NO THANKS" do you fail to understand?
 
Quote from Index piker:

What part of "NO THANKS" do you fail to understand?
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Cool. When we finish nationalizing the health care system you can reject care and turn to alternative medicine/prayer. Good luck with that.
 
The problem with right wing idiots is ... well, you're all imbeciles.

This "healthcare bill" was authored by the healthcare industry lobbyists, ie your butt buddies.

So it's highly amusing when a right winger screams bloody murder on this fraud of a bill.
 
This "healthcare bill" was authored by the healthcare industry lobbyists, ie your butt buddies.
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>_<

Guess what? The majority of politicians are bought out by these industries and banks and while they use social and domestic issues to try and mask themselves they pretty much all believe in government control.

The only difference in their policies is that the republicans want more war and the democrats want more spending which pretty much results in more spending either way.
 
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