666...the Devils Moving Average

LongShot · Oct 16, 2003

Quote from Doubter:

Im simply claiming that LIKE A MAN
who stands idly by, and allows innocent children to die
when he could have prevented it, GOD should be held
responsible for the SAME negligent behavior.
You cannot label someone benevolent who commits this act.
axeman
_______________________________________

Here you are stating "LIKE A MAN" God stood by, but He is not a man and views things differently. This is narrowing His frame of reference to "LIKE A MAN" and then attackng Him on that frame of reference. Strawman?

You, doubter, opened this door when you stated..

"a. Where has God said that the only attribute to His being is benevolence. He has said that He has several attributes or parts to His mentality. ie. jealousy, all knowing, everlasting, all powerful, loving, able to be angered, able to be provoked to wrath and several others."

You have ascribed to god these human attributes such as jealousy, anger, love AND benevolence...

therefore axle's use of benevolence is allowed in the context of this argument, so rules the court

Doubter · Oct 16, 2003

Quote from axeman:

Im not narrowing HIS frame of reference.
I could care less what HIS frame of reference is.
It doesn't matter what HIS frame of reference is.

If a man stands idly by, and allows innocent children
to die, can he stand in front of the judge and say:

"Well you see judge, you don't understand my frame
of reference, therefore cant hold me responsible".

Doesn't work. His frame of reference is not relevant.

REGARDLESS of the persons frame of reference, we
hold him NEGLIGENT.

If a man doesn't get let off the hook, why should I just
magically let god off the hook?

I don't. He shouldn't be. If he is in the SAME scenario
as the man, and stands idly by like the man, then he
deserves the same label of negligence like the man.

Where is the problem?

peace

axeman
__________________________________________

Doesn't work. He either acted to prevent this or didn't based on His frame of refenence.

axeman · Oct 16, 2003

Doubter claims an all powerful god.

Does it strike you as silly that an "all powerful" god, who
is also benevolent, seems powerless to prevent a church school
bus full of children from crashing and killing them?

Some christians even claim that he is omnipresent,
which means HE WAS THERE when the church bus crashed.

Show me what is wrong with this picture:

1) God was near the bus before the crash
2) God knew the bus would crash
3) God is all powerful and could have stopped the bus
4) God is benevolent
----------------------------------
God lets the bus crash and kill innocent children

Great god you go there.
What a loseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer.

peace

axeman

Doubter · Oct 16, 2003

Still the frame of reference. You are continually judging on your frame of reference. Carryin out your reasoning, no one should ever die because God could have prevented it.

LongShot · Oct 16, 2003

Quote from Doubter:

Still the frame of reference. You are continually judging on your frame of reference. Carryin out your reasoning, no one should ever die because God could have prevented it.

what would you think of *me* if i could have prevented 9/11 but i chose not to act?

Doubter · Oct 16, 2003

LS - You're making my point. You are not God (I hope

) . He should be allowed to tell His side of the story. And by bringing in 9/11, that is exactly my point. Why just a bus load of church children or children running over a cliff? The list could be endless.
Every death for whatever cause.

DT-waw · Oct 16, 2003

Quote from Gordon Gekko:

if advanced aliens came to earth and asked us what we thought about our origin, i'd be EMBARASSED if we told them this religious crap. i'd want to say to them, "no, no, no! we don't all think that way!"

ROTFL... Gordo, sometimes you're funny as HELL

axeman · Oct 16, 2003

"Still the frame of reference. You are continually judging on your frame of reference."

This makes no sense. Who elses frame of reference SHOULD I be using? Gods?

Are you asking me to read his mind??

As I explained before, this is not relevant.
The judge and jury could care less what your frame of
reference is when you let those kids fall to their death.

"Carryin out your reasoning, no one should ever die because God could have prevented it."

False. Did I ever say that god should prevent all death? No I didn't.
Is this the logical conclusion? No its not.

For example:
If I get drunk, get in a car on a wet dark night, and slide
off the highway and kill myself, then I did not die as an
innocent victim. My choices caused MY death, and no
one can be held negligent for my death.

It's amazing to what lengths some of these theists will
go, to protect something so obviously flawed.

peace

axeman

Quote from Doubter:

Still the frame of reference. You are continually judging on your frame of reference. Carryin out your reasoning, no one should ever die because God could have prevented it.

LongShot · Oct 16, 2003

Quote from Doubter:

LS - You're making my point. You are not God (I hope ) . He should be allowed to tell His side of the story. And by bringing in 9/11, that is exactly my point. Why just a bus load of church children or children running over a cliff? The list could be endless.
Every death for whatever cause.

Oh I see what you're saying a god's morality is different than the morality it demands of its subjects.

axeman · Oct 16, 2003

You have consistently FAILED to provide a good reason
why being god absolves him of all responsibility.

In fact, with great power, comes MORE responsibility.

If SUPERMAN stood idly by and let the children fall
to their death, when he is even MORE capable of
preventing this terrible crime, we would be even
more disgusted with him

God, is more powerful than superman, and yet, you
want to wave a wand and claim we should not hold
him responsible, even though anyone else WOULD BE.

I already explained that this does NOT mean that every
life should be saved, so drop that excuse already.

peace

axeman

Quote from Doubter:

LS - You're making my point. You are not God (I hope ) . He should be allowed to tell His side of the story. And by bringing in 9/11, that is exactly my point. Why just a bus load of church children or children running over a cliff? The list could be endless.
Every death for whatever cause.