666...the Devils Moving Average
- Thread starter crackhead
- Start date
God loves you TM.Either life HERE ON EARTH has value and god is not benevolent because
he stands idly by and lets innocent babies die,
or it doesnt have enough value to worry about innocent babies
being killed, since there is an afterlife, and therefore we cant hold god accountable.
peace
axeman
_______________________________________________
Or maybe He wants to save those babies from growing up into blasphemous atheists like four we know. Does that mean there is hope for those four since they are still alive? Don't know. Maybe He would rather sit back and let those four go into eternal damnation. Who knows. Lots of possible senarios with a multifaceted God.
he stands idly by and lets innocent babies die,
or it doesnt have enough value to worry about innocent babies
being killed, since there is an afterlife, and therefore we cant hold god accountable.
peace
axeman
_______________________________________________
Or maybe He wants to save those babies from growing up into blasphemous atheists like four we know. Does that mean there is hope for those four since they are still alive? Don't know. Maybe He would rather sit back and let those four go into eternal damnation. Who knows. Lots of possible senarios with a multifaceted God.
round and round she goes...
i think some of you guys are running into the same problem aquinas had... when you base assertions on single points of argument you can get yourself into trouble by accidentally equating the point you are trying to make with the argument you are using to make the point.... especially dangerous if the argument you are using as a foundation is flawed.
i'm becoming more and more convinced that beneficial debate- i.e. debate that enlightens both sides and allows each to see the other's point of view- requires time for the finer points to draw themselves out, and also requires that both sides show civility and a real desire to both make logical points and to really see the points made by the other side.
as soon as one person starts flinging mud or insults, emotion takes hold and pretty soon whatever value there was in the exchange has gone out the window. it's hard to share intelligently and openly with someone who is calling you stupid or shit for brains.
i think this baby thing has gone way off track... has anyone considered that God's sovereignty and benevolence is a question that applies to all men, regardless of age- if God revealed himself to Paul on the road to Damascus, then Paul can claim no more credit for his salvation than a newborn babe... to understand that God chooses who He reveals himself to answers the baby question because we are all helpless babes in the sense of requiring God to come to us... though of course that opens up the far larger can of worms in terms of understanding God's mercy and sovereignty as it applies to all of mankind
also in regards to babies being driven off a cliff or what have you... the question of God's benevolence has to be asked side by side with the consequences of human will... if man has the ability to act out his natural desires including those desires that are evil, how would he be able to do so without negatively impacting those around him... if i am an evil parent then my children will feel the repercussions of that... a world in which natural wills were exercised but had no reverberating effect on others, including those technically undeserving of that effect, would be an impossible one... we are authors of the world we live in and as miniature gods (in the sense that we are made in God's image) our actions have effect on those around us for good or ill
i'll probably regret stepping back into this but oh well... i really like hearing views from the atheist side when they are reasoned and articulate (as opposed to you're shit the bible is crap etc)
i think some of you guys are running into the same problem aquinas had... when you base assertions on single points of argument you can get yourself into trouble by accidentally equating the point you are trying to make with the argument you are using to make the point.... especially dangerous if the argument you are using as a foundation is flawed.
i'm becoming more and more convinced that beneficial debate- i.e. debate that enlightens both sides and allows each to see the other's point of view- requires time for the finer points to draw themselves out, and also requires that both sides show civility and a real desire to both make logical points and to really see the points made by the other side.
as soon as one person starts flinging mud or insults, emotion takes hold and pretty soon whatever value there was in the exchange has gone out the window. it's hard to share intelligently and openly with someone who is calling you stupid or shit for brains.
i think this baby thing has gone way off track... has anyone considered that God's sovereignty and benevolence is a question that applies to all men, regardless of age- if God revealed himself to Paul on the road to Damascus, then Paul can claim no more credit for his salvation than a newborn babe... to understand that God chooses who He reveals himself to answers the baby question because we are all helpless babes in the sense of requiring God to come to us... though of course that opens up the far larger can of worms in terms of understanding God's mercy and sovereignty as it applies to all of mankind
also in regards to babies being driven off a cliff or what have you... the question of God's benevolence has to be asked side by side with the consequences of human will... if man has the ability to act out his natural desires including those desires that are evil, how would he be able to do so without negatively impacting those around him... if i am an evil parent then my children will feel the repercussions of that... a world in which natural wills were exercised but had no reverberating effect on others, including those technically undeserving of that effect, would be an impossible one... we are authors of the world we live in and as miniature gods (in the sense that we are made in God's image) our actions have effect on those around us for good or ill
i'll probably regret stepping back into this but oh well... i really like hearing views from the atheist side when they are reasoned and articulate (as opposed to you're shit the bible is crap etc)
LOL...you probably will....as you know i took quite the exception to Gordon's language and insults and started to just insult him left and right....yes , i know that was a childish response to a childish fool, but I really like this debate and the intriguing points made on both sides....all i have asked for is common respect and decency for both views.....But its very hard when you have nonsense like was posted yesterday....I'd love to continue and possibly understand what drives the atheists as well but once the insults start flying its tough to do.