zero sum game?????????????

Quote from whitster:

the former is a (at best) conjecture about the possibility of "beating the market", which is absurd, but at least theoretically arguable

the latter is simply an irrefutable statement about the structure of the market

nobody (NOBODY) argues that a poker game is not zero sum.

futures/option are no different. for every option bought, there is a writer who wrote it, and somebody who bought it. no wealth is created. the net is zero. this is totally different from the stock market where wealth is created every day. there is not a net zero sum necessarily in the stock market. there is in the options/futures market. they are different in structure

usually, at this point, somebody starts protesting
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A. You are assuming that

1. You got all the chips you paid for (would you sit there and count a million chips before playing?).

2. There are no rats to eat your chips.

3. You have no intention of diluting the chips before handing them over (i.e. handing over half a chip, and pretending to be Chinese).

B. With the "pot" ETF, at delivery, had it been diluted with cow dung and hay, would you know about it until you took a whiff?

...and then who would you complain to? Elliot Spitzer!

C. Which writer didn't write at Refco, or am I just dreaming?

D. You need to watch Syriana: the only nuke that Kim has is the stale fart stuck in his rectum.
 
Quote from mahras2:

Most people don't use the correct terms for that either. Its known as the Efficient Market Hypothesis (EMH). Yes, I do agree with your assessment somewhat.

http://www.e-m-h.org/

There are very few true theories when it comes to economics.
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Actually...
The EMH only applies to very liquid securities...
Such as large cap stocks, and most commodity, future and options markets.

A LOT of obscure or complex securities attract negligible interest...
And are not priced very efficiently in the short term (hours or days).

Otherwise I would not be outperforming the S&P 500...
By 20% per year over 13 years... AFTER transaction and administration costs.
My performance would be like 1,000,000 standard deviations away from mean.

But in the longer term (months)...
EMH applies to virtually all securities.

rm+

:cool: :cool: :cool:
 
Quote from whitster:

a typical nonresponse...
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Prove it. Prove what you say is true, because you know it isn't. You cannot prove it, yet reality suggests non zero sum.

You keep repeating the same thing continuously, and no one every told you that futures and opitons trading isn't a game. It isn't a game.
 
Quote from 1000:
Prove it. Prove what you say is true, because you know it isn't. You cannot prove it, yet reality suggests non zero sum.

You keep repeating the same thing continuously, and no one every told you that futures and opitons trading isn't a game. It isn't a game.
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You do not have to prove the obvious.

Futures (ie YM) is a zero sum game. Sellers equal buyers and vice versa. It is a game. There are players. I am a player.
:)
 
Quote from Cheese:

Futures (ie YM) is a zero sum game. Sellers equal buyers and vice versa. It is a game. There are players. I am a player.
:)
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Sellers also equal buyers in the stock market.
 
Quote from GS19:

Must be a positive sum game for the winners and a negative sum game for the loosers, thus zero sum overall.
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Company A has IPO, issuing its stock at $5.

Joe buys stock at $5 from Company A, then sells to Jane at $10.

Jane sells to Jan at $15.

Who loses?
 
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