zero sum game?????????????

dividends are nice, but they are not *the* reason why equities are not zero sum

even if dividends did not exist - equity market would still not be zero sum. but dividends are a good point, since they are a constant influx of new wealth flowing into the market
 
Quote from volente_00:

all this talk of welath being made, would someone care to answer where the wealth being made comes from ?
More...

It must be positive sum, everyone who traded YM today won. So YM futures must be positive sum.:)
 
it COMES from the process of capitalism

jeez. this is frigging econ 101. actually, it's even simpler

look.

how much wealth is there in the world today?
how much wealth was there in the world 100 yrs ago?

is there MORE now?

of course.

how much wealth is in the US now?
100 yrs ago?

etc.

economic systems can (and do ) in many cases create wealth

wealth can be created. some economic systems, can destroy wealth.

the point is that wealth is not finite. it is increased through invention, innovation, economy of scale, etc.

this is just exceptionally basic economics.
 
Quote from whitster:

the point is that wealth is not finite. it is increased through invention, innovation, economy of scale, etc.

this is just exceptionally basic economics.
More...

You missed Volente_00's point. Jimho, I think the question is where did the money in your pocket come from?

1. China?

2. Kim's HP photocopier?

3. Your photocopier?

4. It may be growing on a tree in your back garden?

5. Something a lot more sneeky than you ever imagined?

6. You split your 5$ and made everyone believe that a little piece of it was just as good as the whole?
 
of course it is relevant. wheter it be short or seller, a seller is matched with a buyer. a seller who sells too early incurs opportunity cost, or loss. and don't argue that opportunity cost does not exist. if a man retires at 30 and doesn't work another day, he is losing by not participating and eventually runs out of WEALTH. a pga golfer who is not PARTICIPATING because of injury suffers loss. a football team suffers loss when their starting quarterback is not PARTICIPATING because of injury.

also, when dividends are distributed, it SUBTRACTS off the stock price.

Therfore, a stock @$50 with a $1 dividend distribution will trade adjusted @$49.

Quote from whitster:

"Sellers also equal buyers in the stock market. "

but that is not relevant.

NET longs = net shorts in the options/futures markets. the sum total = 0

net longs <> net shorts in the stock market. hence, the sum is not (necessarily) zero. therefore, it is not zero sum.

there are several other reasons to explain why futures/options are zero sum and stocks are not.

this is the most basic.

you CANNOT have a long futures contract, without somebody being on the opposite side. these contracts are AGREEMENTS. that is all.

you CAN have a long stock holding without somebody being short the same stock holding.

they are differently structured markets.
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it is not relevant to the fact that equity markets are not zero sum and futures markets are.

it is relevant only in proving you don't understand what the term zero sum means. because IF you think it's relevant, you don't understand what zero sum means.
 
Quote from whitster:

it COMES from the process of capitalism

jeez. this is frigging econ 101. actually, it's even simpler

look.

how much wealth is there in the world today?
how much wealth was there in the world 100 yrs ago?

is there MORE now?

of course.

how much wealth is in the US now?
100 yrs ago?

etc.

economic systems can (and do ) in many cases create wealth

wealth can be created. some economic systems, can destroy wealth.

the point is that wealth is not finite. it is increased through invention, innovation, economy of scale, etc.

this is just exceptionally basic economics.
More...






Wealth is not made, it is merely transferred.
It does not matter if we are talking today, tomorrow or 100 years ago.



Do you agree that you can only acquire wealth at the expense of others ?
 
Quote from volente_00:

Wealth is not made, it is merely transferred.
It does not matter if we are talking today, tomorrow or 100 years ago.



Do you agree that you can only acquire wealth at the expense of others ?
More...

ROTFLMAO
 
"Wealth is not made, it is merely transferred. "

ok. i had thought you were ignorant.

now, i know it.

if wealth is not made, then where did all the wealth COME FROM? the "wealth fairies"?

there was the same amount of wealth 3 thousand years ago as there is today? worldwide? amazing. care to compute the average wealth per capita today vs. 3 thousand years ago. heck, 200 yrs ago? all the inventions (harnessed electricity, motor transport, literature, science, medicine, vaccines, hydroponics, botany, etc. etc. etc. ) have done NOTHING to CREATE wealth. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. you can't "transfer" what doesn't exist. if you TRULY don't understand that mass wealth has been (and is being created) you truly are a man completely 100% ignorant of the most basic concepts of human society. i feel badly for you. really/

some people are truly amazing. a billion points of data cannot wrest their petty prejudices out of their small minds.

if you REALLY believe this, then you are truly ignorant.

and this is a very very very rare thing.
 
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