zero sum game?????????????

Quote from 1000:

So if it is zero sum, why is it not "not zero sum"

If it is zero sum then it is not "not zero sum" which may not be true.

i.e. all long contracts - all short contracts <>0
may not be exclusive because of price distortion.

What happened to your winter wheat (you need to insure it), and was that spelling error around page 50 deliberately implying buying puts on MSFT, or just buying volatility calls?
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Wow, amazing post! I can't help but be swayed by your convincing logic.
May I ask, how far above the legal limit were you intoxicated when you posted this? I'm guessing by a factor of at least 4.
 
"That means that...
our whole solar system...
could be, like...
one tiny atom in the fingernail
of some other giant being.

This is too much!

That means...
-one tiny atom in my fingernail could be--
-Could be one little...
tiny universe.

Could l buy some pot from you?"
 
Quote from volente_00:

If the company does a buyback, they pay the current market price when it occurs. For every dollar that the stock is above the ipo, the company then loses that dollar to the investor.
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A company does not ever have to do a buyback, it has no obligation to do so. A short position by definition means that you do have an obligation.

If I have a bar of gold and decided to sell it and one year later after the price has gone up decide to buy it back it doesn't mean I was "short" during that one year span, I was flat.

When you short something it means you are selling something that you do not own. When a company does an IPO it is selling ownership of the company, which it does own, hence it is not shorting itself when it goes public.
 
Quote from winter:

A company does not ever have to do a buyback, it has no obligation to do so. A short position by definition means that you do have an obligation.

If I have a bar of gold and decided to sell it and one year later after the price has gone up decide to buy it back it doesn't mean I was "short" during that one year span, I was flat.

When you short something it means you are selling something that you do not own. When a company does an IPO it is selling ownership of the company, which it does own, hence it is not shorting itself when it goes public.
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Oh really ?

How many shorts were obligated to buy back Enron shares ? Worlcom ? global crossing ?


When a company has an ipo, it is selling rights to future profits. If the profits have not been made then they do not own/possess them at the moment.


If someone has the right way down the line to a claim on a company's assets, is that not still a liability ?
 
Quote from bitrend:

I see your point of view is very narrow you're keeping to give with example case by case. If it has an infinite cases you will get Zero. You're not seeing the big picture. Don't ever dream you can take money from me, I won't lose it to someone like you're. It's impossible to lose money to a loser like you.:)

I can write long text when the market is closed since it requires longer time to explain for person like you.:)
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ok ill make this simple for you think of the float of google as 1 share if person A buys google at 100 then B buys it off of A for 200
A has now profited 100 dollars,
C buys from B for 300
B now has profited 100 dollars
D buys from C for 400 C now has 100$ profit
E buys from D for 500 D now has 100$ of profit

In total that is 400$ in profits

so now E sells to F for 400$ a loss of 100$
and G buys off of F for 300$ a loss of 100$

thats 400$ in profits vs 200$ in losses the stock market creates wealth meathead, now youre gonna tell me you could do the same for stocks that go to zero except that a stock can only go down 100% where as it can go up infinite, you lose sorry.

Btw trade Ford today I look forward to taking your money
 
Quote from volente_00:

When a company has an ipo, it is selling rights to future profits. If the profits have not been made then they do not own/possess them at the moment.

If someone has the right way down the line to a claim on a company's assets, is that not still a liability ?
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Within the context of "zero sum", it is almost certain the future payouts to shareholders -- regardless of form -- will not equal the original amounts paid for the underlying stock. If they do, it would be coincidental.
 
And you keep dreaming that GOOG or another strongest one will go to infinite!!! In what world are you right now?

You don't have a valid argument, you just insult people of being retarded for not agree with you. But your point of view is wrong. How can someone agree with you if you're wrong? You cannot force them to believe in you, you need valid arguments to convince people. I have nothing against you personally. It's just I find your attitude for discussion is unhelpful.

Quote from dwl603:

ok ill make this simple for you think of the float of google as 1 share if person A buys google at 100 then B buys it off of A for 200
A has now profited 100 dollars,
C buys from B for 300
B now has profited 100 dollars
D buys from C for 400 C now has 100$ profit
E buys from D for 500 D now has 100$ of profit

In total that is 400$ in profits

so now E sells to F for 400$ a loss of 100$
and G buys off of F for 300$ a loss of 100$

thats 400$ in profits vs 200$ in losses the stock market creates wealth meathead, now you're gonna tell me you could do the same for stocks that go to zero except that a stock can only go down 100% where as it can go up infinite, you lose sorry.

Btw trade Ford today I look forward to taking your money
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I took a company public a few years ago. Sold $10 million worth of stock at $1.00. "We" made $10 Million. Investor's bought stock at $1.00, and sold it at $3.00, they made money. So far $30 million "made". Those who bought stock at $3.00 have lost nothing at this point. Companies generally trade for several times "book value" and even higher P/E multiples...so even if Company breaks even, stock "may" stay at $3.00 forever. When company makes money, "true value" goes up, closer to the $3.00 mark...so price may increase. The market then determines pricing, with buyers and sellers taking market risk. Dividends and appreciation and overall profitability add to value.

Perhaps this will help the discussion a bit (maybe not, LOL)...

Don :)
 
this is another good comment thx Don, the company or person sold the shares also profited off of the initial sale of shares so therefore the ONLY possibility of zero is if the stock goes to zero, anything over zero and someone has still made money off of it.

And no I have no dreams of google just used an example everyone would know of but thx bit trend.
Thank you for once again proving your intelligence by taking my comment literally

I think that the next thread bittrend will be most likely to inhabit is the "is trading gambling thread" where he will swear up and down we are nothing but a bunch of slot jockeys.

This of course will be followed by the thread "I just blew my account what now"

Try telling me something like berkshire hasnt created wealth, I wonder what the overall percent return is on that stock had you bought it at the IPO.


Quote from Don Bright:


I took a company public a few years ago. Sold $10 million worth of stock at $1.00. "We" made $10 Million. Investor's bought stock at $1.00, and sold it at $3.00, they made money. So far $30 million "made". Those who bought stock at $3.00 have lost nothing at this point. Companies generally trade for several times "book value" and even higher P/E multiples...so even if Company breaks even, stock "may" stay at $3.00 forever. When company makes money, "true value" goes up, closer to the $3.00 mark...so price may increase. The market then determines pricing, with buyers and sellers taking market risk. Dividends and appreciation and overall profitability add to value.

Perhaps this will help the discussion a bit (maybe not, LOL)...

Don :)
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