Zen and the Discretionary Trader
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Magister Ludi wrote a post about Zen :
Zen is nothing but a psychological method of removing yourself from the equation at the moment of action. The intuition spoken of in Zen literature could very well be reworded as 'unconscious- response'. In other words, the zen masters were not setting forth some sort of a cosmological connection where you just knew what to do -- it is a matter of training so fiercely that the outward realization eventualy becomes automatic and the inward process happens both spontaneously and effortlessely; without the left side of your brain and all the hindrances(when trying to act in the moment) that comes with it. It is the art of working your ass off and then getting out of your own way.
Magister Ludi then goes on to say : "Suzuki could have very well explained it, train-train-train then just do it...."
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I think I can throw some light onto the subject, not from a trading point of view but from personal experience in playing a particular sport in martial arts.
>>it is a matter of training so fiercely that the outward realization eventualy becomes automatic and the inward process happens both spontaneously and effortlessely<<
I would change the way it is put in the above paragraph and replace it as follows :
It really comes down to 'letting it happen' rather than 'doing'.
That is the nearest way that I can describe the process. One first acquires a high level of skill and thence one doesn't consciously try to effect what one wants to achieve but let 'it happen' by itself.
So one could in a way say that one is in 'automatic mode', without thinking i.e. the body does it rather than us 'consciously directing the body' to excecute the technique or action.
The only doing of the achieving or action is in 'not doing', i.e. by not consciously endeavouring to achieve the required outcome.
>>Suzuki could have very well explained it, train-train-train then just do it....<<
So the sentence immediately above , the way I would put it it would read :
"Suzuki could have very well explained it, train-train-train then just LET IT HAPPEN it...."
It is hard to convey to others what I am talking about so I hope that what I said makes some sense.
freealways
Zen is nothing but a psychological method of removing yourself from the equation at the moment of action. The intuition spoken of in Zen literature could very well be reworded as 'unconscious- response'. In other words, the zen masters were not setting forth some sort of a cosmological connection where you just knew what to do -- it is a matter of training so fiercely that the outward realization eventualy becomes automatic and the inward process happens both spontaneously and effortlessely; without the left side of your brain and all the hindrances(when trying to act in the moment) that comes with it. It is the art of working your ass off and then getting out of your own way.
Magister Ludi then goes on to say : "Suzuki could have very well explained it, train-train-train then just do it...."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I can throw some light onto the subject, not from a trading point of view but from personal experience in playing a particular sport in martial arts.
>>it is a matter of training so fiercely that the outward realization eventualy becomes automatic and the inward process happens both spontaneously and effortlessely<<
I would change the way it is put in the above paragraph and replace it as follows :
It really comes down to 'letting it happen' rather than 'doing'.
That is the nearest way that I can describe the process. One first acquires a high level of skill and thence one doesn't consciously try to effect what one wants to achieve but let 'it happen' by itself.
So one could in a way say that one is in 'automatic mode', without thinking i.e. the body does it rather than us 'consciously directing the body' to excecute the technique or action.
The only doing of the achieving or action is in 'not doing', i.e. by not consciously endeavouring to achieve the required outcome.
>>Suzuki could have very well explained it, train-train-train then just do it....<<
So the sentence immediately above , the way I would put it it would read :
"Suzuki could have very well explained it, train-train-train then just LET IT HAPPEN it...."
It is hard to convey to others what I am talking about so I hope that what I said makes some sense.
freealways
great post, free. it makes perfect sense !
best,
surfer
this not the least bit difficult to explain or understand. virtually EVERYONE has experienced this in their lifetime through some physical activity or sports. furthermore, modern neuological science explains this in part through the concepts of facilitation.
freealways quit placing a mystic spin on everything, you're not a sorcerer and trading isn't black magic. :-/
For anyone interested in learning about what Zen 'is' and how/if it has anything to do with the game of trading; a great little book to start with is "Zen and the art of Poker" by Larry W. Phillips...
Not only will it open your heart/mind to 'zen', but it will beautifully illuminate the parallels that undeniably exist between 'mastery' in poker and 'mastery' in trading...
PEACE and good-trading,
Commisso
Not only will it open your heart/mind to 'zen', but it will beautifully illuminate the parallels that undeniably exist between 'mastery' in poker and 'mastery' in trading...
PEACE and good-trading,
Commisso
Long(on rubbish)Short(on brains), please do yourself a favour and place me on 'ignore'.
I am fed up with your nonsense, don't make a nuisance of yourself. Just F/O
freealways
I am fed up with your nonsense, don't make a nuisance of yourself. Just F/O
freealways
Freealways....
not taking sides here...
But, for a guy who writes what you often do... and claims to have insight... it apparently doesn't take much to blow your cool... regardless whether it is "justified" or not to react to another's "criticism".
With all due respect... think you ought to reflect on that... before.... posting any further comments about inner peace and the like!
Regards brother...
Ice
Iceman, by all means do offer your opinion but by all means have a look at the trite which Longshort is coming out with.
It is a bit like the posts from Msfe, how can one get through to an idit ?
In any event, where did I claim anything about inner peace ?
Don't read anything in my posts which isn't there.
And yes, certainly, I do consider that morons and idits shouldn't be allowed to get away with disturbing and ruining a thread so yes, I have no qualms about rubbishing them (or exposing the illogic of people like Saynt Chaosity).
Whether it has any effect on them is something else.
freealways
It is a bit like the posts from Msfe, how can one get through to an idit ?
In any event, where did I claim anything about inner peace ?
Don't read anything in my posts which isn't there.
And yes, certainly, I do consider that morons and idits shouldn't be allowed to get away with disturbing and ruining a thread so yes, I have no qualms about rubbishing them (or exposing the illogic of people like Saynt Chaosity).
Whether it has any effect on them is something else.
freealways
A short zen story :
The farmer's daughter is pregnant, and she says the father is the revered zen master of the village. The villagers come to the zen master and throw him stones, insults, blasphemies, and force him to keep the baby. Losing all respects and reputation, the zen master accepts the baby, and calmly says " Is that so".
A few months later, the girl finally admit that the real father is actually the neighbor boy. The villagers come to the zen master with apologies and sincere regrets. The zen master giving back the baby to the farmer's familly, and calmly says " Is that so".
Morale of the story : Whatever people say, claiming they could make 10 ES pt per day, or having an edge, or blowing their account in 2 days, or saying how smart or 'idits' you are, just say " Is that so".
Cheers!
The farmer's daughter is pregnant, and she says the father is the revered zen master of the village. The villagers come to the zen master and throw him stones, insults, blasphemies, and force him to keep the baby. Losing all respects and reputation, the zen master accepts the baby, and calmly says " Is that so".
A few months later, the girl finally admit that the real father is actually the neighbor boy. The villagers come to the zen master with apologies and sincere regrets. The zen master giving back the baby to the farmer's familly, and calmly says " Is that so".
Morale of the story : Whatever people say, claiming they could make 10 ES pt per day, or having an edge, or blowing their account in 2 days, or saying how smart or 'idits' you are, just say " Is that so".
Cheers!