Zen and the Discretionary Trader

[Pabst]

To realize pure mind in your delusion is practice. If you try to expel the delusion it will only persist the more. Just say, 'Oh this is just a delusion,' and do not be bothered by it.
-Shunryu Suzuki-

Many ET members claim that they trade what they see and not what they think. Yet many of these same traders purport to use decision making tools in their trading process such as TA. Thus does anyone here, particularly someone who trades futures, as opposed to a listed scalper, trade completely intuitively with no external indicators. Is any futures trader here able to never have an opinion? Is there a futures trader here who never opens up a chart? Does anyone here NEVER consider their equity when initiating, sitting or exiting a trade. Is it possible that someone could achieve such hypnotic oneness with the market that even watching quotes would be non essential?

 

[Magister Ludi]

Pabst,

Zen is nothing but a psychological method of removing yourself from the equation at the moment of action. The intuition spoken of in Zen literature could very well be reworded as 'unconscious- repsonse'. In other words, the zen masters were not setting forth some sort of a cosmological connection where you just knew what to do -- it is a matter of training so fiercely that the outward realization eventualy becomes automatic and the inward process happens both spontaneously and effortlessely; without the left side of your brain and all the hindrances(when trying to act in the moment) that comes with it. It is the art of working your ass off and then getting out of your own way.

Suzuki could have very well explained it, train-train-train then just do it....

PEACE and good-trading,
Commisso

 

[WDGann]

Zen is BS...

Why would you want to call it "ZEN", anyways...

It's just a man doing...

Words are BS... BS... har har har...

You guys make me laugh... Trying and being is completely different...

 

[Pabst]

Quote from Magister Ludi:

Pabst,

Zen is nothing but a psychological method of removing yourself from the equation at the moment of action. The intuition spoken of in Zen literature could very well be reworded as 'unconscious- repsonse'. In other words, the zen masters were not setting forth some sort of a cosmological connection where you just knew what to do -- it is a matter of training so fiercely that the outward realization eventualy becomes automatic and the inward process happens both spontaneously and effortlessely; without the left side of your brain and all the hindrances(when trying to act in the moment) that comes with it. It is the art of working your ass off and then getting out of your own way.

Suzuki could have very well explained it, train-train-train then just do it....

PEACE and good-trading,
Commisso

JC,

Your clarity once again inspires me........

 

[Magister Ludi]

Quote from Pabst:



JC,

Your clarity once again inspires me........

My point was just that it is not as 'mystical' as people make it out to be, well the method itself is not - the experience is what it is. Zen is pretty much just a cross between Taoism and Buhdism and was adapted by the Ancient Samurai as a psycological method of getting your work done; no one ever needed it more, for when you have a sword being wielded at your face you can't very well take the time to wonder about whether it is going to hurt or not...

The experience that springs forth from the method of Zen is what is spiritualy charged by its nature, because it has a feeling of 'oneness' or 'satori' or whatever you want to call it, but make no mistake about it - the method itself is rigorous and anyone that is looking to achieve this state thru a craft, be it slicing up fuedal samurai's or trading S&P futures - you must first be willing and capable to sweat white beads for it...



PEACE and good-trading,
Commisso

 

[hii a_ooiioo_a]

Quote from Pabst:

does anyone here, particularly someone who trades futures, as opposed to a listed scalper, trade completely intuitively with no external indicators. Is there a futures trader here who never opens up a chart?

Had a problem with my computer 2 months ago. Couldn't access any webpages. Could only access my e-mail through toolbar and TWS trading station from my desktop. I couldn't get any News or Charts from my computer. Also couldn't get onto Elite Trader.

I continued to trade, just from watching the numbers on TWS. I actually did better during those 7 weeks than I have at any other time. Most of these other things are just distractions. What distracts, detracts.

 

[harrytrader]

Yeah I found one if you miss the post

"The power of mind: trading by remote-viewing "
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14501&highlight=trading+by+remote

Quote from Pabst:

To realize pure mind in your delusion is practice. If you try to expel the delusion it will only persist the more. Just say, 'Oh this is just a delusion,' and do not be bothered by it.
-Shunryu Suzuki-

Many ET members claim that they trade what they see and not what they think. Yet many of these same traders purport to use decision making tools in their trading process such as TA. Thus does anyone here, particularly someone who trades futures, as opposed to a listed scalper, trade completely intuitively with no external indicators. Is any futures trader here able to never have an opinion? Is there a futures trader here who never opens up a chart? Does anyone here NEVER consider their equity when initiating, sitting or exiting a trade. Is it possible that someone could achieve such hypnotic oneness with the market that even watching quotes would be non essential?

 

[m_c_a98]

Quote from hii a_ooiioo_a:

Also couldn't get onto Elite Trader.
I actually did better during those 7 weeks than I have at any other time.

This may be the key to success.

 

[Banjo]

"It is the art of working your ass off and then getting out of your own way.

Suzuki could have very well explained it, train-train-train then just do it...".

PEACE and good-trading,
Commisso
I think that's where the art begins. Tiger Woods and Micheal Jordon probably know something about that.

 

[LongShot]

Quote from WDGann:

Zen is BS...

Why would you want to call it "ZEN", anyways...

It's just a man doing...

Words are BS... BS... har har har...

You guys make me laugh... Trying and being is completely different...

Gann this thread isn't any less BS than yours. :-/