Zen and The Art of Trading

Quote from martys:

The only purpose of this board is to really lay out our thoughts and focus on the loopholes... and internalize those rules that proves to help.
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Seems like there've been two parallel threads, one on trading and one on meditation/trance/self-hypnosis. Not much has been said about the need for patience, much less the value of BE, and as I read posts here and there, these seem to be humongous problems for many people.

Or maybe not . . . :)
 
I have done simple meditation for a while. It was amazing how the chatter in my head came to a halt during my sessions and slowed down afterwards. I had a taste of what is meant by living the moment and not worrying about the past nor the future. The lesson I learned is that the stresses we have are the products of our own mind. I definitely need to go back to my meditation sessions.
 
Quote from dbphoenix:

Seems like there've been two parallel threads, one on trading and one on meditation/trance/self-hypnosis. Not much has been said about the need for patience, much less the value of BE, and as I read posts here and there, these seem to be humongous problems for many people.

Or maybe not . . . :)
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You are right. For one I am not patient and that is probably "THE" problem but I think impatience does not stand on its own. I don't think I can just be patient (although I am trying with hypnosis) until I correct all the faulty beliefs, patterns, metaphors and expectations... :(
 
Quote from dbphoenix:

Seems like there've been two parallel threads, one on trading and one on meditation/trance/self-hypnosis. Not much has been said about the need for patience, much less the value of BE, and as I read posts here and there, these seem to be humongous problems for many people.

Or maybe not . . . :)
More...

I guess we might be able to tie these two. For instance, one can combine a mediation session with a visualization session. After meditating 15-20 minutes the mind will clear up. Then we start visualizing charts, the trading plan and taking trades according to the plan. We can visualize patiently waiting for our exact setups and then entering the trades. One can also visualize (reasonable) profits after a days work and a smoothly rising equity curve. The visualizations will help with "tricking" the subconscious.
 
Quote from dbphoenix:

Perhaps I don't understand what it is in the mind that requires clearing. :(
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It is the self-talk/chatter. Most of the time my mind is occupied with the mistakes that I've done in the past and worries about the future. Perhaps what I think as mistakes happened through some random events that I have no control over. These thoughts are not the absolute single "reality"-- My mind creates them. Meditation clears all these thoughts.
 
Quote from dbphoenix:

Seems like there've been two parallel threads, one on trading and one on meditation/trance/self-hypnosis. Not much has been said about the need for patience, much less the value of BE, and as I read posts here and there, these seem to be humongous problems for many people.

Or maybe not . . . :)
More...
You are absolutely correct.

This has led to my demise in both trading and playing poker..

When Playing poker. Some nights things just don't go your way.. You can do everything you are supposed to correctly.. raise/fold/call..etc.. but the cards just don't come your way or some dumbass beginner is always drawing to hands he shouldn't to beat you..

The trick is recognizing when this is happening.. many times I started off like this.. nothing could go right.. then much later the cards turn as they usually do and I find myself climbing back and at breakeven give or take a few bucks..
So many times this has happened to me and I would continue playing only to give it all back..

Same thing with trading when I've had daily goals.. I might be a few bucks from reaching the goal and push it.. or a trade may not have been triggered all day.. and the trading day is coming to an end and you push it take a mediocre trade and you pay.. next thing you know instead of meeting your goal you're down for the day..

Its tough to learn to live with mediocre short term results and wait for the proper oppurtunity.. but I've learned that there are always plenty of opportunities just around the corner...
 
Quote from chinook:

I guess we might be able to tie these two. For instance, one can combine a mediation session with a visualization session. After meditating 15-20 minutes the mind will clear up. Then we start visualizing charts, the trading plan and taking trades according to the plan. We can visualize patiently waiting for our exact setups and then entering the trades. One can also visualize (reasonable) profits after a days work and a smoothly rising equity curve. The visualizations will help with "tricking" the subconscious.
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Chinhook,

Have you done this.. if so, have you found the results to be advantageous??
 
Quote from Flashboy:

You are absolutely correct.

This has led to my demise in both trading and playing poker..

When Playing poker. Some nights things just don't go your way.. You can do everything you are supposed to correctly.. raise/fold/call..etc.. but the cards just don't come your way or some dumbass beginner is always drawing to hands he shouldn't to beat you..

The trick is recognizing when this is happening.. many times I started off like this.. nothing could go right.. then much later the cards turn as they usually do and I find myself climbing back and at breakeven give or take a few bucks..
So many times this has happened to me and I would continue playing only to give it all back..

Same thing with trading when I've had daily goals.. I might be a few bucks from reaching the goal and push it.. or a trade may not have been triggered all day.. and the trading day is coming to an end and you push it take a mediocre trade and you pay.. next thing you know instead of meeting your goal you're down for the day..

Its tough to learn to live with mediocre short term results and wait for the proper oppurtunity.. but I've learned that there are always plenty of opportunities just around the corner...
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exactly,

The more important it is to have a solid methodology that you stick to invariably

Poker is the perfect pre-meditation for trading as it deals in the same concepts of making money (expectation, method, patience)...only with less variables and feedback comes quicker

I find that after I'm up in capital for the session I sometime play out looser hands (go on mini-tilt if you will) and usually I start loosing at that point

the importance is recognizing your emotions and behaviour and correcting it

kind of a constant feedback\correction loop

this is probably much more difficult to maintain in trading since it's easier to rationalize your impulses as proper methodolgy

you KNOW you're on tilt if you start playing certain hands on impulse and on hope

BUT how easy is it to recognize your doing the same thing in trading??

I think your discipline needs to be able to pick up on that gambling\hope impulse right away, and it's a tough one
 
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