Yukoner's Psychological Trading Journal

[jsmacksem]

Hard day Yukon. I'm no expert but definitely want to see you succeed. So I hope you learn a lot about today. I'm learning and I'm continuing to learn, we can't just "break our rules". That could be the one time. A static stop/target approach might help you. Good idea.

Good trading Yukon.



-JS

 

[Redneck]

You were greedy (need to figure out why - by identifying the root cause.., then obviously fixing it)

You broke your rules (like JS said)

Most importantly - you broke trust in yourself (now ya gotta regain that back)


All in all - a really shitty day - I'd say

====================


Make tomorrow different

RN

 

[wrbtrader]

...I then decided I am just going to walk away from the computer and let this work... my first target was 50 ticks lower. So I did, briefly, and I come back to the computer and see the total trade going against me a little bit. I get nervous... and close one contract, then another, then another... and shesh, it gets a few ticks from my original stops and drops hard in my favor...

...Then to make it worse, there is a knock at my door... I open it... and there is my X. She was meeting our son, but I understood that to be at another location, and I think he did too. Anyhow, I was pleasant enough, and just considered stopping to trade after that.... but I didn't...

Leaving to take a break... but seriously thinking that I need to go with @NoDoji advice and just put on a trade with stop and take profit and then walk away from the computer. Going to schedule a talk with my psych coach.

-953

You did exactly as NoDoji recommended but you sabotage it via returning early to see how the trade was going resulting in you "changing the plan" while the trade was still open.

Therefore, you need to determine what compels you to return and then change your plan after you initiated the plan...what exactly were you doing when you walk away. Seriously, were you doing laundry, watching TV, reading a book, staring out the window, lying on the sofa and listening to music...what exactly were you doing ?

There's another issue...you used a very negative statement when your X showed up unannounced via you saying "then to make it worse" in reference to her or the situation she walked in on unknowingly. Simply, although the brief visit was pleasant...your negative statement suggest you were going to sabotage your trading further via using her as an excuse as if seeing her would make the remaining of your trading day unstable. Big enough excuse that you even considered stopping for the day at that point.

Out of curiosity...

Did you get psychological help from a psychologist (not trading coach) after you split up with your X ?

Is your trading psych coach a psychologist ?

Is your trading psych coach helping you with your personal life or only with the trader psychology stuff ?

Do you actually visit your trading psych coach office or is this an online thing ?

Do you have some "working hour" rules with your X that involves her not stopping by your house without prior notice to prevent disrupting your trading day ? If not, you need to make some boundaries with her because you obviously still have some major psychological issues about her. Thus, you must ensure that she understands to not disturb your trading (no phone calls, no coming by the house, no emails) unless its an emergency. Everything else can wait until you close shop for the day. You need to stick to that rule about the X until you'll no longer making statements like "to make it worse".

By the way, here's a little trick I personally do whenever I walk away from a trade and let it do its job. Using some stats...I determine the average time I'm in a trade. Therefore, lets pretend my average trade length is 7 minutes.

I will then walk away and put the timer on like 8 minutes and then return to the computer. The purpose for this exercise is to teach/train myself to do nothing as in stay away and then at 8 minutes...I then return back to the computer to feed that need to be "involved". Simply, more often than not, a profit target is reached or stop/loss hit prior to the 8 minutes expiration.

Just as important, during the 8 minute duration...I ensure that I'm doing something that relaxes me and occupies my thoughts so that I'm not tempted to let some emotion/event sneak in and sabotage my trading.

P.S. I have a professional punching bag in my office. Actually, the other 1/2 of the room is an exercise room (e.g. weights, rowing machine, cycling station, boxing equipment) that I only use while trading. Yet, I'm not recommending you do the same. I'm suggesting that every body is different and you need to find something that relaxes you or give you that emotional control during the average time duration you're in a trade.

 

[Handle123]

I not followed this attempt as much as first one, but seems you doing worse? Out of control? Question, on days where you are profitable, what been biggest intraday drawdown? And did you do sim before doing these combines? If you notice you don't have drawdown on profitable days, that might be a way to cut yourself off.
I have had to learn hard way, but when in the hole, and my time limit gone by, breakeven plus a tick is a profitable trade for me. Will be another trade eventually.

This will sound silly, but disconnect doorbell and put sign you don't answer door till 4pm, it always upsets you.

When risk is too great, wait for deeper retracement till risk will be more manageable, you be surprised how often you will get into trade.

 

[Yukoner]

Day #24 - Woke up, and in the frame of mind to just trade. Hard to state, but I had a DGAF attitude for most of the day and was just focused on taking the trades. I also had a early session with my psych coach, and talked about the day yesterday.

It was an interesting session, and we went through a lot of things. Specifically the fact that I want to try and keep control... to feel like I am in control. We discussed the static stop and take profit and if that could benefit me or not, and how I should proceed in the future. (I'll post that later on)

So I just traded after that... I felt like I really didn't care if I got stopped out or not. I added to trades when I thought it was the right thing to do. Of course, I cut some winners short... but I did trade out of a hole. Ended up a little bit for the day. The interesting thing was the zone I was in... I just hit a spot where I was relaxed and just focused on trading well. It was more a feeling of where the market was going and riding that and being in the flow.

I need to remember this attitude.

+117

 

[Yukoner]

You did exactly as NoDoji recommended but you sabotage it via returning early to see how the trade was going resulting in you "changing the plan" while the trade was still open.

Therefore, you need to determine what compels you to return and then change your plan after you initiated the plan...what exactly were you doing when you walk away. Seriously, were you doing laundry, watching TV, reading a book, staring out the window, lying on the sofa and listening to music...what exactly were you doing ?

There's another issue...you used a very negative statement when your X showed up unannounced via you saying "then to make it worse" in reference to her or the situation she walked in on unknowingly. Simply, although the brief visit was pleasant...your negative statement suggest you were going to sabotage your trading further via using her as an excuse as if seeing her would make the remaining of your trading day unstable. Big enough excuse that you even considered stopping for the day at that point.

Out of curiosity...

Did you get psychological help from a psychologist (not trading coach) after you split up with your X ?

Is your trading psych coach a psychologist ?

Is your trading psych coach helping you with your personal life or only with the trader psychology stuff ?

Do you actually visit your trading psych coach office or is this an online thing ?

Do you have some "working hour" rules with your X that involves her not stopping by your house without prior notice to prevent disrupting your trading day ? If not, you need to make some boundaries with her because you obviously still have some major psychological issues about her. Thus, you must ensure that she understands to not disturb your trading (no phone calls, no coming by the house, no emails) unless its an emergency. Everything else can wait until you close shop for the day. You need to stick to that rule about the X until you'll no longer making statements like "to make it worse".

By the way, here's a little trick I personally do whenever I walk away from a trade and let it do its job. Using some stats...I determine the average time I'm in a trade. Therefore, lets pretend my average trade length is 7 minutes.

I will then walk away and put the timer on like 8 minutes and then return to the computer. The purpose for this exercise is to teach/train myself to do nothing as in stay away and then at 8 minutes...I then return back to the computer to feed that need to be "involved". Simply, more often than not, a profit target is reached or stop/loss hit prior to the 8 minutes expiration.

Just as important, during the 8 minute duration...I ensure that I'm doing something that relaxes me and occupies my thoughts so that I'm not tempted to let some emotion/event sneak in and sabotage my trading.

P.S. I have a professional punching bag in my office. Actually, the other 1/2 of the room is an exercise room (e.g. weights, rowing machine, cycling station, boxing equipment) that I only use while trading. Yet, I'm not recommending you do the same. I'm suggesting that every body is different and you need to find something that relaxes you or give you that emotional control during the average time duration you're in a trade.

Agreed that for now I need to modify my trading rules temporarily to deal with the challenge I have of cutting my winners short. @NoDoji is absolutely correct, that I would have passed the combine all ready had I simply stuck with my game plan. At times I have seen something setup, that I was pretty sure would go my way, and I have been tempted to just go all in... 4 or 5 contracts, and let it happen... but then I ask myself, "What does that accomplish? Nothing has changed"

As for what I was doing, I was walking away to distract myself, and I then I came back to look at it which is where the impulse jumped in. In hindsight, it was a great entry to add on that third contract... location was almost perfect... and I took hardly any heat, and more importantly it fit with my methodology.

Curiosity questions answered:
1) I did get help from a marriage counsellor (registered clinical) who I had worked with for over a year with my X. She is highly qualified.
2) Psych coach is a trader himself with a master in counseling (20 plus years experience). Highly qualified.
3) Psych coach is helping me with all aspects of life, trading and non-trading.
4) All online... with video... very tough to find anyone to even talk our type of trading, let alone counsel on it.

The boundaries with the X are this... don't come by without checking first. However, I will make a point of letting her know my trading times and not to call or text me during those times. Thanks for mentioning that.

I hear you on the punching bag. At times I have been very tempted to install one of those, just to be able to work out a bit while trading and release some frustration. Used to do muay thai kickboxing, so that would fit well with my lifestyle.

Good Trades,
Yukoner

 

[Redneck]

The interesting thing was the zone I was in...

I just hit a spot where I was relaxed and just focused on trading well.

It was more a feeling of where the market was going and riding that and being in the flow.

I need to remember this attitude.

That is the zone (detached.., observant..., fully functioning - yet not affected by any of it)

More than remember - figure out a method to enter it - at will (this would be a good conservation with the coach)

Till it becomes 2nd nature..., and the default mindset you trade in

Quirky thing about the zone - harder one tries to enter it..., more evasive it becomes (in the beginning you might need to sneak up on it)

But..., once you can - it'll permeate every aspect of your life (a good..., yet also..., bad thing (especially for the important people in your life)

I did trade out of a hole.

Small wonder - you were in trader mindset nirvana


RN

 

[Yukoner]

That is the zone (detached.., observant..., fully functioning - yet not affected by any of it)

More than remember - figure out a method to enter it - at will (this would be a good conservation with the coach)

Till it becomes 2nd nature..., and the default mindset you trade in

Quirky thing about the zone - harder one tries to enter it..., more evasive it becomes (in the beginning you might need to sneak up on it)

But..., once you can - it'll permeate every aspect of your life (a good..., yet also..., bad thing (especially for the important people in your life)





Small wonder - you were in trader mindset nirvana


RN

Thanks. My psych coach mentioned a similar thing about the value, and to try and remember that feeling and work on bringing it back as needed. I like that, "trader mindset nirvanan".

 

[Yukoner]

Day #25 - Woke up rested and ready to trade. Decided that I should try to "recapture" this feeling of DGAF attitude and see if I could trade from that. I also had some new rules I was going to establish, but decided that today I would just trade normal... but focus on trying to keep my winners longer.

Early on, I was a bit jumpy... I realized I had done 4 trades in 15mins of the open, and that isn't normal for me.. and so I took a break. Got away, and told myself to relax and just trade how I knew I should trade. Came back and put on a great entry, classic for me, but lo and behold I get stopped out almost exactly at the high.. only to watch it come back. So now I am down about $200 for the day, and I realize that this was a good entry zone, my stop was just too tight for the volatility... so I enter short again, and sure enough it was bang on and now I have two contracts on and in good profit. Traded that one well.

Stayed out of the EIA report, as funded traders need to be flat anyhow, it doesn't make sense for me to trade going into that report. I then found myself trading post report, but feeling pretty jumpy inside... so I did some jumping jacks and pushups to try to diffuse some of the energy. Then I started to feel it... I started to get this sense that the market wasn't going to hurt me... nothing bad was going to happen... I just needed to stay with the plan.

I had one instance where I knew the right thing to do was add to the winning trade, but when it retraced I just got so nervous even though I only had 6 ticks of risk at that point. I told myself that 6 ticks risk, was nothing if the market was going to drop some more, but I had to fight that feeling of losing (for some strange reason) and before I really thought about it I closed the trade with a 6 tick gain (exactly where I knew i should have added)... yea, a minute or so before it started to drop and then went another 70 plus ticks in my favor. That sucked. (Note: Is it possible I am misinterpreting the emotion? Maybe the emotion is trying to tell me to do something different, like add another contract!)

A bit later I took a trade that was a loser, based right at a level I had wanted to short earlier... and suddenly my nice profit buffer of $450 is down to $300. At that point I considered stopping for the day... but I asked myself "Why?" Realized I was operating from a scarcity mindset and not a DGAF mindset... and so I kept trading.

Felt like I really started to hit a place where I just did what I needed to do, without being stupid about it. Still could have improved my trading skill today, but overall seemed to trade like I know how to trade.

+630

 

[Yukoner]

Day #26 - Decided to just trade today, and again try to get into that same attitude. Started well, and I could feel myself start to get into that zone of trading where I was analyzing correctly and just going with the methodology without much fear. Felt like a good place to trade from.

Overall the day was breakeven and I was down a bit, and then I saw a setup take place and I got in and rode it for 61 ticks. Suddenly I am up for the day, and have made back all my losses from the week and with a slight gain. At that point I did consider stopping, and I remember thinking about being careful to not get too euphoric about a winner. I did some jumping jacks and pushups, and tried to diffuse some of the energy.. which I am finding works for me.

I continued trading, and then I actually found myself breaking some of my trading rules. I think I was getting into a "swing for the fences" type of attitude. I briefly considered just stopping for the day, but I reminded myself to not trade with fear.

Then here is where I made a mistake... I got a bias. I had read about $60 oil being such a psychological factor, and I thought the bottom was in for the day and we would rally more. So even though the market was screaming at me what to do, I went against my methodology and starting trying to buy as the market was dropping into close. I was also not as focused as I usually was, due to outside factors, and that contributed to me not seeing what was happening. I traded right up to my daily loss limit, just so sure a rally would happen... and I would see a big move up.

I close down T4 for the day, and I was still so biased I actually went long in my own account only to get stopped out. I get back in. Then suddenly it dawns on me what I am doing... and get this, I actually started laughing. I was laughing at myself, I couldn't believe what I had done. I looked at the longer term charts, saw the break down below 60 so clearly... and I went short my account, and covered with a great gain in the overnight.

The interesting thing was I hit a point where I just laughed. This may sound weird, but that is a break through for me. Keeping that "trading nirvana" attitude was really helpful, I just need to learn not to get too carried away with it, and to still listen to the market.

This may sound crazy, but today was a very positive day for me.

-980