Yukoner's Psychological Trading Journal

[Yukoner]

May I suggest you talk to your coach about what's in bold for starters

RN

Believe me, I have been! This is why Thursday he had me do a several trades and just push through the fear.

I know the reason, it comes from growing up in an environment that if you were "wrong" (that means sinning) then you were going to hell. So doing the "right" thing has huge significance for me! Taking a losing trade of course would be the wrong thing to do when you are dealing with someone else's money... even though intellectually I know this is part of the game. So in times of stress my brain wants to revert to how it was raised, rather than the part of me that knows how to trade and understands why I should be taking the trade.

Awareness of this though, well that means I am at least half way to the solution.

 

[Redneck]

Awareness of this though, well that means I am at least half way to the solution.

True - but realize that is the easy part - changing is the bitch - or rather can be (it up to the person to either make it easy or hard)

Believe me, I have been! This is why Thursday he had me do a several trades and just push through the fear.

I know the reason, it comes from growing up in an environment that if you were "wrong" (that means sinning) then you were going to hell. So doing the "right" thing has huge significance for me!

Taking a losing trade of course would be the wrong thing to do when you are dealing with someone else's money... even though intellectually I know this is part of the game.

So in times of stress my brain wants to revert to how it was raised, rather than the part of me that knows how to trade and understands why I should be taking the trade.

So I'm brain storming here (dumbass redneck style)



Instead of trying to change your beliefs - which are admittedly deep seated from childhood

Try changing what you classify as "right" or "wrong" with respect to trading



Aside

I initially started listing examples of the rights & wrongs..., but then changed my mind


It may be better if you came up with the "rights".., and "wrongs" - for you

Maybe your coach could even help you identify these..., then assist you in changing your belief system accordingly


Sure would make for a rock solid belief system - basically built all the way back from childhood to do the "right" things..., and pass on the "wrongs"

===================

And Youkner - I can certainly list em..., or even get you started with an initial list- but again..., only if you say


Who knows.., it may come to pass.., that you have to prove out what is "right"..., and what is "wrong" - to yourself - through trial and error - before you believe it

Our head is (or can be) such a fickled space


Any way..., which ever way works for you - is the right way


This just a thought mind you

RN

 

[Yukoner]

And Youkner - I can certainly list em..., or even get you started with an initial list- but again..., only if you say


Who knows.., it may come to pass.., that you have to prove out what is "right"..., and what is "wrong" - to yourself - through trial and error - before you believe it

Our head is (or can be) such a fickled space


Any way..., which ever way works for you - is the right way


This just a thought mind you

RN

@Redneck why not! I am open to ideas, and would be glad to view that initial list. Much thanks, may the generosity come back to you many times over.

I've considered the idea of adjusting my focus to the "right" thing to do in trading, and it is something I will be discussing with my psych coach some more. Mark is very good, and has helped me immensely.

Good Trades,
Yukoner

 

[NoDoji]

Believe me, I have been! This is why Thursday he had me do a several trades and just push through the fear.

I know the reason, it comes from growing up in an environment that if you were "wrong" (that means sinning) then you were going to hell. So doing the "right" thing has huge significance for me! Taking a losing trade of course would be the wrong thing to do when you are dealing with someone else's money... even though intellectually I know this is part of the game. So in times of stress my brain wants to revert to how it was raised, rather than the part of me that knows how to trade and understands why I should be taking the trade.

Awareness of this though, well that means I am at least half way to the solution.

It seems to me that you can solve all these issues (perceptions of "right and wrong", childhood programming, and "times of stress") by walking away from your computer as soon as your order is filled and returning to your computer as soon as you hear a sound that tells you a stop loss or profit target has been filled.

You'd save yourself the stress of watching price move back and forth, you'd save yourself the concern about doing something "wrong" (sinning) because you know intellectually that the only right thing to do is to let your stop/target take care of you on each trade, and best of all, you'd attain your goal of being a funded trader.

Awareness isn't going to help you get through these mind games any faster. Taking the important action step of removing your brain/emotions from the trade management process will help you circumvent all the self-sabotage and fear.

(The only time this would make no sense is if your trading strategy involves stop-and-reverse tactics, in which case you have to be present at all times.)

 

[Redneck]

Awareness isn't going to help you get through these mind games any faster.

One of the steps toward solving is always identifying

Taking the important action step of removing your brain/emotions from the trade management process will help you circumvent all the self-sabotage and fear.

No question...., quieting the brain..., minimizing emotion - from one's trading is the ultimate state


Any suggestion how should he go about doing that (actual steps)



RN

 

[Redneck]

@Redneck why not! I am open to ideas, and would be glad to view that initial list.

Off the top of my head - so it not is any particular order / sequence;


The "right" things


Mkt/ trading is uncertain

Not knowing is acceptable - no one does

Our opinion does not matter

Our ego is useless..., and destructive

Our fears are useless..., and destructive (greed is a form of fear)

We like our self

We trust our self to act in our own best interest 100% of the time - when trading

We trust price

Price is absolute honesty – 100% of the time

Price is the absolute arbiter

We never try to lead price.., nor second guess price - we dutifully follow price

Mkt does not know.., nor care - we exist

When we are not 100% - emotionally / mentally / physically sound – we do not trade

We maintain a centered bias – when unable – we do not trade

We maintain 100% focus - when unable - we do not trade

We are first and foremost - human

We make mistakes

We know shit happens

We recover from said mistakes..., shit..., and move on

Losing trades…, are as much a part of successful trading – as profitable trades

Trading is strictly pay for performance

Trading is only about making money

We only produce a PnL

First priority – protect capital

Second priority – make money

Third priority (when trading) - screw everything else

We have absolutely no control..., nor influence..., over the outcome of each trade

Proper trading is following a repeatable routine – consistently

We know our signal(s)

We know our signal(s) will not always result in a profitable trade

We trade every appearance of our signal(s)

Each trade is planned out / has a trade plan

Each trade plan is strictly followed to fruition

Each trade is assigned a stop loss for when it breaks down

The stop loss is placed 1 tick past where the trade breaks down

The stop loss is not moved

Whenever the stop loss is hit – trade is exited

Each trade is assigned a profit target

When the profit target hit – trade is exited

Each trade has a method for managing it

Missing a move is a normal part of successful trading

When we miss a move - we sit on hands - and wait till the next signal appears

We focus on the process of trading

We ignore the outcome of each trade

We grade ourselves on how well we followed the routine/ process – not the outcome

We create context in a consistent..., and repeatable..., manner - based solely on price

We trade 1 time frame only

We never switch our trading time frame while trading

We are flat EOD

We never modify our approach during a session – only during off hours

As our skill matures – so to can our method of establishing profit targets be changed

Having fewer signals - and scaling up - is perfectly acceptable

Profitable trades are not right..., losing trades are not wrong - one.., or the other..., will be the outcome / result - of each trade we enter

Each time we enter - our capital is at risk..., we can..., and will - lose

When our signal(s) is / are - not present - we sit on hands and wait till one materializes

When in a trade - we sit on hands - till either the stop loss..., or profit target - is hit

We keep all things trading related as simple as is humanly possible

We know there are many ways to trade successfully - but only 1 exists for each of us

===============================


Most everything else…, not listed above – is "wrong"



RN

 

[NoDoji]

No question...., quieting the brain..., minimizing emotion - from one's trading is the ultimate state


Any suggestion how should he go about doing that (actual steps)



RN

Yes, the action step I proposed was that he walk away after the trade is on and return to the screen after he hears an alert that either the stop loss or profit target has been filled. It's hard to feel that tick-by-tick emotion when you're not watching the tick-by-tick price movement. When he's in a trade all the fear-based emotions are turning seconds into minutes and minutes into eternities and he's been cutting all his winners throughout this journal. It seems to me if he had let all those choked off winners hit his 30 tick target he'd be a funded and consistently profitable trader long ago. I've never experienced anyone suddenly changing because they become aware of (identify) a problem. The awareness is just the first step. Then the hard work begins. Since most trading platforms have OCO/OCA bracket orders and sound alerts for when an order is filled, I figured that if he could get himself to walk away as soon as a position is initiated, and then experience the success of letting his profitable trades hit a full target, it would be easier than trying to change his thinking/emotions while on the battlefield.

 

[Yukoner]

Brewing Ideas: Before I read the previous posts, I need to journal something that has been rolling through my brain...
In previous trading experience, I may have instilled wrong habits which then in times of stressful trading my brain wants to default to these habits as the structure that it is most comfortable with. Simply, because that is what I did before... not because it is the correct thing to do.

 

[Yukoner]

Day #23 - Slept awesome after a great weekend. Went into the day feeling good about trading crude, and looking for the sell off. I felt great about trading, and had decided I would just trade normal... no experiment, and just take regular trades.

I tried a couple of trades, and got stopped out on the high of a swing (spike) before the market dropped. So I am down a bit for the day, but then I see another great trade setup and I get short again... up 20 ticks and I add to the short. Looking good now, and I am basically back to breakeven for the day.

So here is where I screwed up... I decided to push it further, and on a retrace back to my average.. I short another contract. I now have three contracts on (which violates my trading rule of stopping at 2 contracts, similar to live trading, rather than the 5 contracts available)... but my risk is pretty good, as I am only risking a total of about 36 ticks. I then decided I am just going to walk away from the computer and let this work... my first target was 50 ticks lower. So I did, briefly, and I come back to the computer and see the total trade going against me a little bit. I get nervous... and close one contract, then another, then another... and shesh, it gets a few ticks from my original stops and drops hard in my favor.

I was sooooo ticked! Here I was again, getting so worried about small losses that I was missing the big picture. (Turned out I closed it almost exactly at the high of the 30min bar, and it continued down over another 100 ticks in my favor)

Then to make it worse, there is a knock at my door... I open it... and there is my X. She was meeting our son, but I understood that to be at another location, and I think he did too. Anyhow, I was pleasant enough, and just considered stopping to trade after that.... but I didn't. I tried a few more trades, but just couldn't seem to get into the zone.

Today, really sucked! I had this day. I was seeing it very well at the beginning. I put on some great trades... but could I capitalize on it? No, I started to self sabotage my trading plan. Super Frustrating!!
It is like I set things up correctly... then I get into the trade and I default to someone else doing a totally different plan.

Leaving to take a break... but seriously thinking that I need to go with @NoDoji advice and just put on a trade with stop and take profit and then walk away from the computer. Going to schedule a talk with my psych coach.

-953

 

[Yukoner]

Day #23 - Slept awesome after a great weekend. Went into the day feeling good about trading crude, and looking for the sell off. I felt great about trading, and had decided I would just trade normal... no experiment, and just take regular trades.

I tried a couple of trades, and got stopped out on the high of a swing (spike) before the market dropped. So I am down a bit for the day, but then I see another great trade setup and I get short again... up 20 ticks and I add to the short. Looking good now, and I am basically back to breakeven for the day.

So here is where I screwed up... I decided to push it further, and on a retrace back to my average.. I short another contract. I now have three contracts on (which violates my trading rule of stopping at 2 contracts, similar to live trading, rather than the 5 contracts available)... but my risk is pretty good, as I am only risking a total of about 36 ticks. I then decided I am just going to walk away from the computer and let this work... my first target was 50 ticks lower. So I did, briefly, and I come back to the computer and see the total trade going against me a little bit. I get nervous... and close one contract, then another, then another... and shesh, it gets a few ticks from my original stops and drops hard in my favor.

I was sooooo ticked! Here I was again, getting so worried about small losses that I was missing the big picture. (Turned out I closed it almost exactly at the high of the 30min bar, and it continued down over another 100 ticks in my favor)

Then to make it worse, there is a knock at my door... I open it... and there is my X. She was meeting our son, but I understood that to be at another location, and I think he did too. Anyhow, I was pleasant enough, and just considered stopping to trade after that.... but I didn't. I tried a few more trades, but just couldn't seem to get into the zone.

Today, really sucked! I had this day. I was seeing it very well at the beginning. I put on some great trades... but could I capitalize on it? No, I started to self sabotage my trading plan. Super Frustrating!!
It is like I set things up correctly... then I get into the trade and I default to someone else doing a totally different plan.

Leaving to take a break... but seriously thinking that I need to go with @NoDoji advice and just put on a trade with stop and take profit and then walk away from the computer. Going to schedule a talk with my psych coach.

-953

Went for a drive, and thought this through some more. I just have to admit it as much as I hate to do so... bottom line, I was greedy. That is why I put that third contract on. Which then lead to other errors, such as:

1) No longer comfortable with my risk
2) Closed out a trade with potential for large gain, by taking a small loss due to #1
3) Put me in a "losing" frame of mind, which affected further trading
4) Broke my rules and didn't stick with the methodology, which now negates the edge.