Yukoner's 2015 Psychological Journal

[wrbtrader]

I don't use an automated system. I review market conditions/data and then make my decisions. I trade without emotion. I risk no more than 2% of TLNW on any one trade/idea, so there is no reason for any emotion.---Thank you for your time.---

Ok...my fault. I was just going by your primary thread that's in the "Strategy Design" section of ET...a thread involving formula writing and codes. In addition, in another thread you participate heavily (ES thread)...someone asked if you were a discretionary trader...you replied NO.

Thus, there's no in between. You're either a discretionary trader or a mechanical system trader or an automation trader. I have a rule that if your entries are manually entered and your trade exits are manually entered (that includes manually entering/adjusting stops)...you're a discretionary trader considering there's no automation or mechanical system involved.

By the way, there a post you made here at ET awhile back that I remember you making a comment about being "upset" that a particular trade wasn't going your way and that you were going to "adjust" your stop. I think the word "upset" followed by a trade management adjustment would qualify as an emotion unless you and I have a different definition of "emotions".

P.S. I don't use automation nor mechanical. Thus, I'm a discretionary trader.

 

[Yukoner]

I don't use an automated system. I review market conditions/data and then make my decisions. I trade without emotion. I risk no more than 2% of TLNW on any one trade/idea, so there is no reason for any emotion.---Thank you for your time.---

I politely suggest you start your own journal about how you trade without emotion. Sure seems like you are bringing a fair amount of it into this one...

 

[Redneck]

Well.., we have work to do..., may as well nut up and get to it

And in the meantime.....

If / when our emotions pop up - which they do..., and will;

We recognize em.., we acknowledge em..., we set em aside... we then observe em

WHILE/ AND/ THEN

We get back to work

Only matters what we do - nothing else

And as always - fuck the results

RN

 

[Redneck]

as an aside

In another thread I detailed out the advantages of setting a goal (least for me)

Goal being met - I'm going back to bed

It colder than a well digger's ass outside..., and there white stuff on the ground (happens about once a year round these parts)

And since goal met - I have no reservations / second guesses about sticking a fork in me

Have fun you 9 to 5er's

=====================

Do your job Yukoner

Look forward to hearing about it this evening - when I wake up

RN

 

[monoid]

as an aside

In another thread I detailed out the advantages of setting a goal (least for me)

Goal being met - I'm going back to bed

It colder than a well digger's ass outside..., and there white stuff on the ground (happens about once a year round these parts)

And since goal met - I have no reservations / second guesses about sticking a fork in me

Have fun you 9 to 5er's

=====================

Do your job Yukoner

Look forward to hearing about it this evening - when I wake up

RN

@Redneck: You must be sleeping now , so when you wake up and get to this post could you elaborate on couple of points?

(A) If you have met your goal for the day, but the trade exit according to plan has not occurred (this is the situation I am currently in as I type this post), do you wait for the trade to be exited as per trading plan or do you close the trade 'cos your goal is met?
(B) In the other thread, you mentioned that you goal was to extract a % of ADR. Did I get it right? If so, how long a time period do you use to calculate ADR? And why that time period? I really like this idea for a variety of reasons -- the main one being a driver to constantly look for ways to enhance one's trading, but not necessarily for a 'money making' goal.
(C) If you have met your goal for the day, and the market provides you with what you consider a high probability signal, do you still forgo that trade?

Interested in your thoughts. Looks like we might have a divergence of opinion here -- not necessarily a bad thing -- but your answers could be highly educational to me.

@Yukoner: I took the liberty of asking these questions to @Redneck for I thought his answer could be educational for all of us even though it might not be directly related to trading psychology. I hope it is ok.

Regards,
Monoid

 

[jsmacksem]

@Redneck: You must be sleeping now , so when you wake up and get to this post could you elaborate on couple of points?

(A) If you have met your goal for the day, but the trade exit according to plan has not occurred (this is the situation I am currently in as I type this post), do you wait for the trade to be exited as per trading plan or do you close the trade 'cos your goal is met?
(B) In the other thread, you mentioned that you goal was to extract a % of ADR. Did I get it right? If so, how long a time period do you use to calculate ADR? And why that time period? I really like this idea for a variety of reasons -- the main one being a driver to constantly look for ways to enhance one's trading, but not necessarily for a 'money making' goal.
(C) If you have met your goal for the day, and the market provides you with what you consider a high probability signal, do you still forgo that trade?

Interested in your thoughts. Looks like we might have a divergence of opinion here -- not necessarily a bad thing -- but your answers could be highly educational to me.

@Yukoner: I took the liberty of asking these questions to @Redneck for I thought his answer could be educational for all of us even though it might not be directly related to trading psychology. I hope it is ok.

Regards,
Monoid

Interested in these questions as well.

And looking forward to hear from you Yukon.

 

[Yukoner]

Day #25 (Baby Step #6) Slept well, and woke up ready for the day. Overall felt pretty good about the day, but reminded myself that overconfidence can hurt just as much as fear. So took the time to remind myself of my methodology and focus on the process.

Trading today was tough. Looking back I can only describe it as weird. I would put a trade on, a bit of follow through and then only to get stopped out. But I kept writing down those checkmarks, and I kept reminding myself to stay focused on the process.

I actually got so into just taking the trades, that I was completely not paying attention to my P&L (which is a rare thing). So before I knew it, I had traded over my personal daily loss limit of $400 and then back down again. I'm not really happy about that, and I need to work out some type of way to safely monitor this without affecting my trading. I was just taking the right trades, even though many of them didn't work out.

At times I could feel frustration hit me, and the temptation to try to deviate from my plan, but I kept having to realign myself to stick to my trading plan. Then I got tired, and I figured tired isn't a good thing... so I stopped... I took a break and didn't come back until I felt rested up. I am pretty happy about that choice.

Twice I also tried adding to the winning trade, as per my plan, one more contract as long as I keep the original risk about the same. It was interesting, as the first time my heartbeat just jumped up... but the second time I was able to stay much more stable, and just do what I was supposed to do. Neither of them worked out, but it was the correct trade to do.

I traded more than I usually would, but they all have checkmarks. It really is amazing how that simple process forces me back to ground zero to keep examining if I am trading correctly.

+3

 

[monoid]

I would put a trade on, a bit of follow through and then only to get stopped out. But I kept writing down those checkmarks, and I kept reminding myself to stay focused on the process.

I was just taking the right trades, even though many of them didn't work out.

Fantastic to hear. Great job.

I actually got so into just taking the trades, that I was completely not paying attention to my P&L (which is a rare thing). So before I knew it, I had traded over my personal daily loss limit of $400 and then back down again. I'm not really happy about that, and I need to work out some type of way to safely monitor this without affecting my trading.

However (there is always a however, right?), it seems to me that in not paying attention to PnL you are really not dealing with your emotions related to it, but are just hiding from it. Let me be more elaborate: When in trade, you do not need to look at PnL for that is not our task at hand -- reading PA and executing is our task at hand. But, after the trade is exited, our task is to take stock of our available resources. By not doing the "resource checking" after the trade, you are (1) not doing your job; and, (2) trying to suppress any emotions that could be triggered due to you looking at PnL. Don't hide from it, but try to (a) acknowledge it; (b) watch it without getting involved; (c) let the emotion go; and, (d) get back to you task of watching PA for the next signal (if resources are still available).
May I suggest adding the task: "Review PnL after exiting each trade" to your checklist?

Overall great job, Yukoner.

Rooting for you. All the best.

Regards,
Monoid.

Edit: Postscript:
After I posted my suggestion, I tried to think how one who has not practiced mindfulness could handle my suggestion during the trading day. I think the emotions arising from reviewing PnL after a series of losses would be very hard to deal with initially (similarly, emotions after a series of gains could also be very hard to deal it initially). But, one has to deal with it at one time or another. Since I come from the school of mindfulness, all I can say is: the practice of mindfulness definitely provides a tool to deal with this situation in a very meaningful manner.

Should you decide to incorporate my suggestion -- of adding the task to your checklist, please do not expect an easy ride at the beginning. However, it would provide you a good and fertile ground to practice mindfulness! I have to emphasize again to be careful in incorporating my suggestions as you could open up a can of worms, and you will most likely regress initially. But, this is the only way I know of to face and address the problem.

 

[Redneck]

From this point on - you are MO to me - hope this is agreeable


Let's break your questions down and see what we end up with

BTW - disagreeing..., is how we learn..., and why mkts exist

So no matter if we do.., or don't - we always can (least imo)

Besides..., group think sucks - also imo

Traders are first..., foremost..., always - independent thinkers

=======================================

(A) If you have met your goal for the day, but the trade exit according to plan has not occurred (this is the situation I am currently in as I type this post), do you wait for the trade to be exited as per trading plan or do you close the trade 'cos your goal is met?

First thing that comes to mind - this is bordering / if not actually - trading one's PnL

Entered a trade to see it through - win or lose

Trade wins - you made goal - stop

Trade breaks down - you haven't made goal - long as you're okay / mkt conditions conducive to trading - you've work to do - keep on truckin

(B) In the other thread, you mentioned that you goal was to extract a % of ADR.

Did I get it right?

If so, how long a time period do you use to calculate ADR? And why that time period?

I really like this idea for a variety of reasons -- the main one being a driver to constantly look for ways to enhance one's trading, but not necessarily for a 'money making' goal.

Goal is to make a % between X & Y - of my net trading capital - in dollars - each day

I do so by extracting a % of the ADR


As to the second part of your question -

I track the daily range - by copying each day's H/L/O/C into excel - along with the days date

I then capture various events for said date (examples being - earning announcements / opt expiry / FOMC / other stock's related to FB - events..., a few others)

Then plot a chart

It surprising how enlightening this is

(C) If you have met your goal for the day, and the market provides you with what you consider a high probability signal, do you still forgo that trade?

Ahhhh..., we've know each other for such a very short time - and yet you're already asking me to break the rules

My rules say I stop - I stop

There are many things I could add - but they all distill to this;

The need to follow my rules..., far and away outweigh any short term gratification I might derive from breaking them just to make additional $'s


=======================

Aside; (my take on high probability signal(s) )

No matter the context surrounding the next signal I trade

No matter if the Good Lord himself..., came down and told me - to my face - that this next trade is going to be a winner

Every..., and I do mean every - trade..., only holds a 50 / 50 shot at working

That is the extent to which I have embraced uncertainty (I live and breath it to my core)

And yeah I can read the signs..., and yeah sometimes (a lot of sometimes) I do know because it that obvious

But no matter

It is uncertain..., and it shall remain uncertain - and because it uncertain - I am never one bit hesitant to exit while the loser still small

Interested in your thoughts. Looks like we might have a divergence of opinion here -- not necessarily a bad thing -- but your answers could be highly educational to me.

Divergence is healthy..., and conducive to learning at times..., with the right participants

hth Sir

RN

 

[barney]

Thanks to all the posts here in Yukoner's blog. I also track ADR, and run a 10 and 20 average, trying hard to follow the change in tone in the market, and adjusting my targets to suit those rotations that occur during RTH.