Yukoner's 2015 Psychological Journal

satchel said:
Sounds like a very good day and then ". Gave it all away in the last 20 minutes of trading"
Most of your posts: things-are-great-then-a-tiny-black-swan-appears (it's a surprise, it has a major effect, rationalized by hindsight).
At the risk of repeating myself, this sounds like poor impulse control. Terms such as 'meltdown' etc.
You are very lucky to have a trading coach, but, is it time for a new one based on your trading outcomes.

I really wish you the best of luck, nothing better than to see you succeed at this. "master yourself, and you'll be ready to win the fight."
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Thanks @satchel I will consider the poor impulse control. The coach is excellent, and without a doubt I have progressed... there just isn't a magic wand that can be waved... this is something that new neurons are required and that takes time to build.
 
Redneck said:
You are absolutely correct Sir

But I started with the drill down process - so in truth I am a product of both


Extrapolating out..., the next logical question;

Which is better?

answer; Which ever better serves the one using it

The key to either - a person must be open and willing - to accept..., to forgive..., to let go..., to move on..., to change -> any thing..., every thing..., all things


And yeah I admit I'm sounding a bit guru-ish at this point

But one can't decide to hang on here..., let go there...., change only this..., allow that to remain the same

It is all intertwined and interconnected in our head..., every thing relies on..., and is supported by - every thing else

iow - fuck with "this"....., you also fuck with "that"

Be willing and prepared for the unintended consequences..., and how one seemly innocuous "this" (thought / idea / belief/ emotion/ whatever) - will have such a profound affect on "that"


I find the mind (especially mine) so damn fascinating


Anyway..., enough with the bloviating

================

Yukoner

Pick a tool and get to the nut cutting; find it..., fix it..., move on

As H123 says..., you can do both..., but start with one

There will be a lifetime to master the other - give you something to do once trading becomes..., umm **routine**

**Note**; I purposely did not use the word boring - boring we lose focus - which is never good

RN
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Excellent stuff. Something every trader should print out and have in their journal. Guru, indeed.

The unintended consequences of mindfulness. Ignorance used to be such bliss....
 
jas_in_hbca said:
Tried sending this as a PM but wouldn't go through, so hell just put it out there for everybody.


From your journal today : "but kept fighting with this stupid feeling like I should be making more, I should be getting more. What I was doing, just wasn't good enough"
If you haven't done any work or research on the Inner Critic then I would suggest that. This book was pretty good although I admit I did not do all the exercises. Having a dialog with ones inner critic I did find very helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/Conquer-Inner-Critic-Doris-Helge-ebook/dp/B00A3MB2UW/ref=sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1423604455&sr=8-3-spell&keywords=doris helgel

I think some people would suggest it may be the Ego trying to prove how great a trader you are but I found the inner critic approach more helpful

I'd also consider how much $$$ you make when you follow your plan compared to how much you lose when you break the rules.

How would you feel if you follow the rules and make X amount ? Really think about it and be honest then ask questions of those answers or come up with solutions or a plan to address the concerns of 'only' making X amount. Why would you be happy following the rules, how would you be disappointed following the rules etc. lots of angles to look at it from.
===

Don't stress. Let it go. We get what we focus on. If you dwell on the frustration it just makes the emotion and the associated behavior stronger and tends to make us repeat it (My opinion based on some readings I don't recall :))

===

Personally, I would stop doing combines. Assume you pass and manage money then blow up. With the added pressure of others watching and the pressure you would feel to perform this would be very damaging to your psyche. Get your trading absolutely solid first, IMO.

Hang in there. (and be kind and patient with yourself)

jas
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Jas, those are great points! I have no idea how the pm feature works, but glad you posted this anyhow. I am sure other traders appreciate it also.

I've reread this now a couple of times. You are right about the inner critic. My psych coach has mentioned a few times about how hard I can be on myself. That I need to practice on forgiving myself.

I hear what you are saying about the combines. My original goal in this whole endeavor was trying to go up a notch in my trading, and get to the point of trading OPM. I just didn't expect all these issues to keep coming up... especially after I passed a combine on my second attempt. That was less than a year ago... and granted, 2014 was the worst year for me that I ever had, so that is a part of this too. For now I am going to give it a bit more time, and if I can't start to see more change, then I will just go back to trading my own account.

Thanks for contributing. I enjoy your journal also. Wish you the best too.
 
monoid said:
Hello Yukoner:

I read your post from yesterday with astonishment. I am sorry your thoughts and behavior got better of you when you should have been Not-Thinking. At that time, I wasn't still sure if you had a complete trading system. But you addressed that point in today's post in reply to Handle123. Clearly, your issue is one of the mind.

Please allow me to suggest a possible solution to this problem. There are two ways one can address the issues of the mind: (a) with psychoanalysis; and, (b) with mindfulness. Handle123 has talked about how psychoanalysis -- the process of trying to find the underlying 'cause' for the displayed 'effect', like pealing an onion -- is helpful to him. I don't find psychoanalysis helpful because of two reasons: (i) getting to the correct root cause is not easy, and is prone to a lot of misdiagnosis; and, (ii) even if the correct root case is identified, no tool is available to "correct/rectify" the root cause.

The alternative approach is mindfulness -- a tool to help create awareness of oneself. Redneck talks about mindfulness; and, his writing on this topic in these forums indicate that he is a practitioner of mindfulness. But I could be incorrect. I highly recommend that you take a look into this approach of working on your thoughts. If you are interested, take the following steps for starters:
(I) google the term "Discursive Thinking". Understand what it really means; Do not stop until you understand what it means. This is your problem (and mine, and almost everyone else's too!).
(II) While you try to understand the meaning of "Discursive Thinking", read the online book Mindfulness in Plain English (link in the middle of the page).

As you do research you will find a lot of Buddhist philosophy interleaved. Do not let this deter you. Our goal is to become better, and whatever help we can get we should accept and evaluate with an open mind. As you research more you will find these concepts (about 2500 years old) are now being integrated into the world of western psychology (especially Behavioral Cognitive Therapy) with a lot of support for mindfulness (and loving-compassion) coming from experiments in Neuroscience. I am not a Buddhist, but I find the practice of mindfulness meaningful and directly helpful.

In the end, we are only as good as our thoughts. Whatever approach helps you address the issues with your thoughts, follow it.

All the best.

Regards,
Monoid.
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Hi Monoid,

Thanks for the contribution. I do indeed practice mindfulness. That is part of my morning ritual prior to even turning on the computer. Without a doubt it helps. However, I do obviously need to get better at the emotional control of what is happening.

There is something triggering for me in this whole process of trading OPM. It is like I am never good enough, regardless of what I do. I keep feeling like I should be doing better, I should be making more $$, doing more trades. AHHHHHHH.... as I write this, here is what just came to mind.

"My Dad telling me that he would be proud of me in anything I do, as long as I be the best I can be in that profession". (note: this is real time, I am typing this journal about "being better" and that thought came into my mind) So I wonder if I am bringing that over into my trading? If I am somehow saying the best trader would (and guys I am just going to type here unedited)
  1. Always have winning days
  2. Have big profit days
  3. Add to winners and really ride those trades to almost full completion
  4. Do lots of trading
  5. Trade big size
  6. Be in demand and trading for a big prop company
  7. Have no fear, and when the perfect opportunity comes they would just trade max size and really push the envelope
  8. Stay humble
  9. Make a lot of money
Hmmmmm, I wonder if that is part of it... if I that is why being good, just isn't good enough. Going to post this anyhow, so I have a record of it.

That was unexpected.

Thanks.

Yukoner
 
Yukoner said:
From the looks of it, an outsider might say, I am fearful of having a profit for the day...
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To follow up with RN said, dig more. Issue/because lists....open honest conversation from an objective perspective etc...

A lot of trading fears/inoperative beliefs you have can be De-energized. In the words of another friend, name it, claim it, tame it. :-)

And another point one made earlier, these things do not need to be "conquered". We're human. But awareness is crucial for you at this point I think.

I think you know the "direction" to go. It surely isn't more technical knowledge.

-JS
 
Redneck said:
You are absolutely correct Sir

Yukoner

Pick a tool and get to the nut cutting; find it..., fix it..., move on


RN
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Here is a start to the nut cutting list, in no particular order:

1) I want to be a great trader, not just a good trader. Being just good, isn't good enough.

2) I felt like I should have all ready passed the combine and been into live trading by this point.

3) At times I get too fixated on the computer screen with DOM and charts, as if being super focused would give me super trading power... but what is really happening is biological... my breathing is tightening up, and that cuts off oxygen to my brain... the stress of fight and flight hits... and by that time, I am not able to think clearly. I can't be neutral.

4) My focus starts being on P&L and not on whether I am being a good trader or not.

5) I want to trade the complete pit session. Just trading for a few hours isn't good enough.

6) I want to have big profitable trading days. Making a few hundred dollars per day consistently, doesn't have the same appeal.

So yea, I can see how each one of these will really affect me... especially when you throw in the pressure of that father figure watching me from the prop desk. Am I good enough yet?
 
I'd say just trade your own money, much lower stress and once you gain a few million then you can think about the hassles of trading OPM or not. I bet most people would not want to trade OPM on here.
 
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