You would think jesus would pay his bills. but i guess not.

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from Free Thinker:

believers are taught that jesus/god is omnipotent. would a loving god stand by and let bad preachers fleece people in his name?

Epicurus: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

the discussion on why God does not intervene when bad things happen to good people (or any other version of this argument) was something that was difficult for me to deal with for a long time. that is, of course, until i learned about the concept of "Occupied Territory". in Mere Christianity, one of the things that C.S. Lewis argues is that God does not intervene in the happenings of the world because it is under enemy reign. Ie, the reign of evil. much of mankind has temporarily chosen to side with evil, and as such, the world is subject to the evils of it's creation and choice. eventually, God will intervene - so be careful what you wish for. for when He does, it will be to destroy the world as we know it.

i'm not trying to sell you on this idea, or even the idea of God. but this is how i have found it is explained in a way i can grasp.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

and he thinks pointing out that some churches are being foreclosed on will do it??

Yes.

If there is a God as described, He does good things for people.
God is doing nothing to save the churches in financial distress.
Therefore there is no God.

 

[Petsamo]

Quote from Free Thinker:
if he chooses to do nothing in the face of evil there can only be two conclusions. either he wants the evil to happen or he is powerless to stop it.

That's where you're wrong.
You want to not feel pain.
So, how can you test to see if you're dreaming if you can't feel your own pinch?

 

[Petsamo]

Quote from Ricter:
God is doing nothing to save the churches in financial distress.
Therefore there is no God.

I hope you're observing the dialogue between myself and Free Thinker because you and he have the same beliefs.

 

[bigarrow]

I roofed a church in the mid 90's and got stiffed on the bill, didn't get a penny. But I've done construction on many churches and by and far they are good to business with at least where I live.

 

[377OHMS]

Quote from bigarrow:

I roofed a church in the mid 90's and got stiffed on the bill, didn't get a penny. But I've done construction on many churches and by and far they are good to business with at least where I live.

Is it not possible for a contractor to place a lien on a property, like a mechanic can place a lien on a car for unpaid services?

 

[Petsamo]

Quote from bigarrow:
I roofed a church in the mid 90's and got stiffed on the bill, didn't get a penny.

The guy who stiffed you wasn't God.
Free Thinker and Ricter might disagree ...

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

i'm not trying to sell you on this idea, or even the idea of God. but this is how i have found it is explained in a way i can grasp.

i hope you realize that this explaination is just a rationalization to attempt to explain away the observable fact that an all powerfull loving god and evil in the world today can not both be possible.
buy hey. people have to use many illogical contortions to make the story fit well enough so they can hang on to their comfort blanket.



for me it is much easier to just be intellectually honest. whats so hard about accepting that everything we see in the world happens exactly as we would expect it to if there were no god?

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Petsamo:

The guy who stiffed you wasn't God.
Free Thinker and Ricter might disagree ...

i dont disagree. how can a human concept stiff anybody?

 

[Petsamo]

Quote from Free Thinker:
for me it is much easier to just be intellectually honest.

There's nothing intellectually honest about denying the possibility that there is a God.