You Can't Trade Without A College Degree!!

Quote from caementarius:

Let's say the probability that you will suffer a sufficient number of blow-ups to make you decide on a different career or otherwise seek employment is 20% (80% chance that you will continue as a successful trader for the rest of your life or until retiring). That still makes the degree worth $32k.
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I'd say a degree is worth a lot more than that -- unless your only work aspirations are for unskilled labor. If you want to actually do something of any depth (er.. interesting/fascinating), you often need a degree. Intel isn't hiring merely high school graduates to design processors.

So what is the value of 'enjoying' your working hours versus miserably grinding your whole life through? Many 'enjoyable' or stimulating occupations are simply not available to non-college grads ...

I'd say a lot more than $32K...
 
Reaver, I respect your opinion and am not disagreeing with it. I would like to say, however, that having a degree and being well-educated are not as closely correlated today as in the past. A good liberal arts education is one thing, learning a trade or profession is another. The first improves one's judgment and can, if desired, also help to improve one's bank account and help retain wealth. But the latter is useful mainly for making money and obtaining material possessions, and, from my own observations, i would say it does not help much in other regards. A good education is not to be scoffed at.

Quote from Reaver:

You'll have to trade for yourself if you don't want to have a degree.

I am not saying that I should be used an an example or anything, this is just me speaking about myself but I flat out refuse to get a degree, because I am determined to make it on my own without some bullshit degree. I am stubborn as shit and I want to prove a point to myself. It's just a challenge that I want to meet. Going to college now would just get in the way of my trading.....I went for a while and quit as I started to realize that I needed my brain for trading, not Sociology or Western Civ.

The only time a degree will come in handy for you is if you rely on someone to GIVE you your job/money/success, etc....

Plenty plenty plenty of entrepreneurs and private traders have made ungodly amounts of money without having a degree....

The things that can make you successful cannot be taught in any school. If you have learned them and embraced them, you're all set....As long as you have the balls and resolve to strike out on your own. BUT YOU HAVE TO APPLY THE DISCIPLINE OR THE THEORY IS WORTHLESS.

A degree will only help you if you are aiming to work for someone else in your life.

Unfortunately I imagine you will need a degree to work as a trader for an institution...I am not exactly sure how it all works, but I imagine they generally like to see advanced degrees, because they somehow equate that with intelligence.

P.S. As an aside, I think it would kick ass to one day go to a college that had one of those cool classes or degrees in paranormal investigation or some shit like that, and take it just for the hell of it. Yeah now that would be fun. I always thought that shit would be a blast if you had enough money to fuck around like that.
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Quote from youngtrader:

Actually im only 17 and still in high school. Where did you get 22 from lol?
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It's his college education kicking in. We have a joke. Only college educated people cant read...
 
Quote from scriabinop23:

I'd say a degree is worth a lot more than that -- unless your only work aspirations are for unskilled labor. If you want to actually do something of any depth (er.. interesting/fascinating), you often need a degree. Intel isn't hiring merely high school graduates to design processors.

So what is the value of 'enjoying' your working hours versus miserably grinding your whole life through? Many 'enjoyable' or stimulating occupations are simply not available to non-college grads ...

I'd say a lot more than $32K...
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Still sounds like JOBS to me... Guess if JOBS is how you define Career then College is for you.

I define career as Business. And in my limited time on this planet college educated people are too smart to start business, and they are only good enough to get jobs.
 
Quote from piezoe:

A good education is not to be scoffed at.
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But where is it etched in stone that college is the only way of getting a good education.. The definition of the word educate undermines everyones strong felt attempts at shoving Institutionalized training down this kids through. He is a FREE WILL person. I have yet to hear one solid convincing argument that justifies one getting a degree unless a job is in your future.


Educate: give intellectual, moral, and social instruction to (someone, esp. a child)

College teaching social and moral skills??? HAH!!!! Ask the date rape victims which moral skills their rapists learned in college.

Educate #2: give (someone) training in or information on a particular field

College is needed for that????? Hmmm...

Educated: resulting from or having had a good education

College???? Hmmm....

The more I define the words, the more college seems to be on the low end of the totem pole....

The joke of the labor market. It's all labor. Intellectual labor. Mental Labor and so on...


Labor: work, work hard; make great effort

Perhaps thats why they have to add the adjective Manual to justify their point....


What I hear is typical of those who struggled through college. Paid student loans and got a "good" job....

If the job was so good, why are you trading???

Seems like you had a career change.

Of course it is proven the best traders do this full time, not as a get rich quick money making scheme.

But then again, these are my opinions... based on years of observation.
 
I am in my early 40s and I have succeeded in my career as a developer/technologist by focusing on Microsoft Technologies for 20yrs now. I have done all of this without a college degree. I have a family, 2 kids and pull income north of 250k/yr from my financial job in NYC. I have built one of the top notch FI research tools on the market (cannot name it). Currently working with equity traders now. I have done all of this coming from a welfare environment until I was about 13yrs old.

With all that success I still think finishing college would of many more doors to many more opportunities. I have spent much of my career keeping up and self-teaching myself. Probably 50% of my time I would of saved if I finished college in the first place.

Even with all my personal success I am still thinking about someday “finishing” college. Ironically my kids are 3 & 6 yrs old and they already have about 40k on their college fund. I guess I want them to have the opportunity I did not have.

I’ll be going into trading this year. A college degree is stopping me from joining a institutional firm as a trader. So I am forced to go as a day-trader. It would have been much easier with a college degree. My success to make my fortune will depend of all my self-education and experiences during my career. I’ll be one of those traders that can built their own tools to analyze and monitor the markets.

Dedication, discipline and passion are necessary to be successful and a college degree is not required. It would definitely help out and make it easier on your endeavors if you are somewhat educated on the social and professional fronts.

So if you have the chance to get a college degree, DO SO!


Quote from Big Money:

I have been a member of ET for a long time but rarely post because 97% of what is said is not worth reading and is a general waste of time. Especially for the newbies, whether discussing trading or life advice they don’t have the knowledge to separate the wheat from the chaff, which is especially dangerous for them. There is some great info if you are willing to do some serious “weeding of the garden” so to speak. The same can be said for this thread as well. This topic is important enough
..........

BM
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Quote from giles117:

Still sounds like JOBS to me... Guess if JOBS is how you define Career then College is for you.

I define career as Business. And in my limited time on this planet college educated people are too smart to start business, and they are only good enough to get jobs.
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I totally agree with you.
 
Quote from giles117:

But where is it etched in stone that college is the only way of getting a good education.. The definition of the word educate undermines everyones strong felt attempts at shoving Institutionalized training down this kids through. He is a FREE WILL person. I have yet to hear one solid convincing argument that justifies one getting a degree unless a job is in your future.


Educate: give intellectual, moral, and social instruction to (someone, esp. a child)

College teaching social and moral skills??? HAH!!!! Ask the date rape victims which moral skills their rapists learned in college.

Educate #2: give (someone) training in or information on a particular field

College is needed for that????? Hmmm...

Educated: resulting from or having had a good education

College???? Hmmm....

The more I define the words, the more college seems to be on the low end of the totem pole....

The joke of the labor market. It\'s all labor. Intellectual labor. Mental Labor and so on...


Labor: work, work hard; make great effort

Perhaps thats why they have to add the adjective Manual to justify their point....


What I hear is typical of those who struggled through college. Paid student loans and got a \"good\" job....

If the job was so good, why are you trading???

Seems like you had a career change.

Of course it is proven the best traders do this full time, not as a get rich quick money making scheme.

But then again, these are my opinions... based on years of observation.
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Outstanding post. That is the point I think we are trying to make on the \"rebel\" side....There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Just look around society and see for yourself. Plenty of morons from both groups. Plenty of successful people from both groups too.

Exceptional people are exceptional people, with or without college.
 
Giles117

You make some very good points. And I agree with most of what you say. You’re right I was speaking about some of my friends, admittedly a small sample. Hey, I don’t feel sorry for them either. They are diversifying assets into other areas but are certainly not financially independent at this point. But life is a little more complicated than “alternate areas of enlightenment” and they don’t have the desire to make things happen. You are right that is a weakness in their mindsets that college probably won’t cure. The type of financial savvy you mention is most certainly NOT taught in school period, either college or otherwise. The fact you say you learned about saving and planning for your future I assume was learned on you own because of your drive to learn and start businesses, not from any class or instruction you had in high school. If it was in high school then that is great but I am sure you would agree that is the exception and not the rule. I am also sure that wisdom was, in hindsight, one of the most important money lessons you learned. The purpose of said savings to cushion the inevitable career changes as you say is a point that cannot be said enough and I hope the younger members of ET remember that. I am glad you were taught right at home, the value of that is hard to estimate. But I would argue that a college grad is better prepared to learn those money skills on their own if they are not taught either at home or from friends in the know. I guess we can agree to disagree. But your opinion is certainly no less valid than mine. It is up to the other readers to make up their own mind.

You are obviously driven by the desire you speak of and on the whole are probably at the level of financial savvy you talk about and I commend you for it. But I am sure you agree that most of those who end up not going to college end up much worse off than you on the whole. They just don’t have your drive. Coming from OLD money or knowing those coming from OLD money is certainly the best way to learn what really matters financially speaking. As long as they learn it somewhere, the country will be better for it. The problem is they don’t. And if I have to have someone around me who isn’t financially savvy, I chose the college grad because IN general they will make more money and are not as close to the financial redline. How many people do you know of who are one car breakdown from not being able to pay the bills? How do they catch up? They don’t make enough to.

I could not agree more with you regarding the kids some schools turn out. A lot are arrogant and think the world owes them. They mostly don’t know much, let alone how to think. I don’t know what business you are in but everyone who is young today in general lacks the passion you speak of. But they are much more prepared than those that didn’t go to college. In my experience they are much worse IN general. You mention complaining how much effort it takes you and your company to train the arrogant and clueless kids you are hiring coming out of these schools. But what you are saying is that you are hiring these “less than great” college grads over your alternative: the non-college grad who would take even more work to make into a competent employee. And there is the rub. You are taking the lesser of the two evils. As bad as those new college grads are, the non-grads are worse in expecting the world to roll over and make things happen for them. Otherwise you would hire them instead.

Before escaping the rat race I worked for a very large mortgage servicer and of the 65 or so in my department, 5 had degrees. The expectations the non-grads expected was amazing to me. And don’t even think about asking them to do anything outside of their tiny box of knowledge, even if it was their job. None cared about how anything was interrelated as long as it didn’t affect them. The general incompetence in general business is mind-boggling in my experience. That is only MY experience. Your experience may vary. As I said before, you do not have to have a degree to be a successful trader for your own account. But I would certainly rather have it than not.

It sounds like you are in control of your world and company and I hope you enjoy continued success Giles117.

BM
 
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