YM Traders
- Thread starter volente_00
- Start date
Well first off I would like to think the people that made it a priority to turn a great thread into crap. This thread started off great and then certain people decided to make it into another yahoo message board debate. I normaly am not one to bicker but I do not like the crap being talked about me so I will address it.
"VOLENTE IS BAD FOR YOUR TRADING...HE IS A GAMBLER WITH NO RULE BASED SYSTEM...."
Porgie WTF is your problem ? Define a gambler, My system has strict rules and I have spent hundreds of hours refining it to give me a 75 to 80% win rate. No rules you say ? Just the other day you posted some nonsense about not using stops and you say I don't have rules ? You are one hell of an armchair quarterback. I really like the fact that by me originally posting live trades, other posters have now started to participate and do the same. And what is this crap about your system never having losses ? You live in a fantasy world. While some of us are here posting our trades real time, you are being a coward and are taking pop shots from the sidelines. EITHER POST SOME REAL TIME TRADES OR GO POST YOUR BASHING SOMEWHERE ELSE BECAUSE IT HAS NO PLACE IN THIS THREAD!
"VOLENTE IS BAD FOR YOUR TRADING...HE IS A GAMBLER WITH NO RULE BASED SYSTEM...."
Porgie WTF is your problem ? Define a gambler, My system has strict rules and I have spent hundreds of hours refining it to give me a 75 to 80% win rate. No rules you say ? Just the other day you posted some nonsense about not using stops and you say I don't have rules ? You are one hell of an armchair quarterback. I really like the fact that by me originally posting live trades, other posters have now started to participate and do the same. And what is this crap about your system never having losses ? You live in a fantasy world. While some of us are here posting our trades real time, you are being a coward and are taking pop shots from the sidelines. EITHER POST SOME REAL TIME TRADES OR GO POST YOUR BASHING SOMEWHERE ELSE BECAUSE IT HAS NO PLACE IN THIS THREAD!
Yes... see, that is what pissed me off earlier today.
I got frustrated and took it out on a few others, sorry about that.
But Porgie just seems to bash on your trading, and then he seems to say that I don't have a chance no matter what, it just really ticked me off.
I just don't appreciate people like that and it's like all they want to do is ruin everything for other people. I again think he is a trader with no life, or just has some big problems. I'm not even trying to pop a joke or insult, I'm really serious about that.
I just don't understand some people like that.
Like I said... it takes a lot of effort to tick me off... and Porgie is just one of those people that can pull it off.
Great chart again JM,
I traded a few times before work today and lost some $.
What do you use again for a stop loss JM?
I know volente uses 20
My problem with trading is I think I see something in the charts (and then if it doesnt form); I'm still trying to see it.
Basically I really think I need to either put in a stop loss or write it down as soon as I hit the buy button. That way I'm not trying to see things that arnt there.
Example earlier today (when I last posted; I thought I saw a inverted H&S on the 2 min chart (ie right before 11). Now it could of been one if the breakout occured; but instead we were really forming a continuation pattern ie a flag or upslanting wedge.
I could of saved myself some points there ...
or for example I really thought we were going to close the gap; I mean why not. So I kept trying to go long in the morning and getting faked out...
I need to let the market tell me what its going to do instead of me telling the market what it is going to do.
btw tomorrow should be a interesting day; if we close below 10400 with a solid day below that; we got a long way to go till a major support again
I traded a few times before work today and lost some $.
What do you use again for a stop loss JM?
I know volente uses 20
My problem with trading is I think I see something in the charts (and then if it doesnt form); I'm still trying to see it.
Basically I really think I need to either put in a stop loss or write it down as soon as I hit the buy button. That way I'm not trying to see things that arnt there.
Example earlier today (when I last posted; I thought I saw a inverted H&S on the 2 min chart (ie right before 11). Now it could of been one if the breakout occured; but instead we were really forming a continuation pattern ie a flag or upslanting wedge.
I could of saved myself some points there ...
or for example I really thought we were going to close the gap; I mean why not. So I kept trying to go long in the morning and getting faked out...
I need to let the market tell me what its going to do instead of me telling the market what it is going to do.
btw tomorrow should be a interesting day; if we close below 10400 with a solid day below that; we got a long way to go till a major support again
I'm real interested in seeing how you do JM; I mean with only 4-5 months of paper trading and only having 1 down day. Thats pretty amazing.
I've been at this (not futures persay) alot longer and I have trouble staying above the red
does your mentor draw your support resistance lines or do you JM?
I've been at this (not futures persay) alot longer and I have trouble staying above the red
does your mentor draw your support resistance lines or do you JM?
Quote from djxput:
I'm real interested in seeing how you do JM; I mean with only 4-5 months of paper trading and only having 1 down day. Thats pretty amazing.
I've been at this (not futures persay) alot longer and I have trouble staying above the red
does your mentor draw your support resistance lines or do you JM?
For your first question about stop loss:
I used to have it set at 3, but I realized it was way too tight.
The stop loss depends completely on where I execute the trade. If I execute the trade 4 points away from support, then I will set it at 5 or 6 points, depending on how strong the support line is.
If the line is constantly breaking, or there are many false breaks, I'd set it wider. But then again, if it had many false breaks, I would rather know who is in control, to possibly hold onto a position and see it break. I'd rather be long, if the buyers are in control, or short if the sellers are in control.
Today, one trade, short, could have done you really nice with a 10 - 15 point trailing stop.
I drew those support and resistance lines because I didn't contact my mentor today and view his screen.
When I trade along side him, he draws support and resistance lines, and always points out who is in control throughout the day and gives excellent advice and is always right on, on who will be in control for the day. I thought it would be sellers day today, and he said that last night, and he was right.
But about me paper trading. I have done intense testing on tick replays from a few months ago that thankfully, my mentor saved and I have never seen, so I have been able to test situations that I had no clue about. The one day I did have a negative day.... was one when I was only able to trade the last hour, and it was pretty stressful day, so that was it.
I mean, even I can identify these lines on my own, I can't identify them perfectly at all times, and It gets somewhat complicated to monitor charts, price, the trading platform, move stops, and try to keep up with support and resistance, and know who is in control... with one 15 inch monitor. I take that back, it is extremely complicated. My first goal from trading is to reinvest all gains into getting a few good monitors so I can actually not worry about switching between screens. Then another goal I have is to make up all losing trades I have made from Equities and Forex from the past 4 months.
After that, I just want to keep on learning, maybe make some profit, but I really want to be prepared for when I graduate this first semester and get out of school. I do better on full days than I do with one hour of the market *... I think that is obvious to anyone that can see a watch*, so it is somewhat difficult to make trades at the end of the day when price is not near support or resistance, or prices get erratic from the last hour traders.
But, it is generally easy to understand. It's just balancing doing several things at once that can be difficult. I made up a rule for myself, that I will not execute a trade until I know where support and resistance is, and I will not execute a trade unless price is near an area of support or resistance, or I have significant reason to believe that a major price movement is about to occur, then I would possibly take a high risk trade to possibly catch a gain that would warrant it.... but I have yet to experience such a situation, so i'm not worried about that.
I still have to gain experience. I notice some days I execute less trades because I understand where support and resistance is, and it feels better. And some days just leave me wondering what is going on. Even on those bad days I still have managed to pull in $300 to $500, but on those days I know I can do much better, it's just the fact that I need to gain more experience, and the only way that will happen is with being active and being able to be exposed to it, so I have to rely on tick previous tick data saves to do that.
I hope to do well, I am very confident that I can if I do what I have been doing in paper trading. Again, if paper trading is ANY indication of how a performance in real trading will be, then I feel alright. Some argue that paper trading is ideal to success, yet I believe that paper trading is almost completely useless, but I know it is the only way i can be active.
But that changes within the next 2 weeks, as I will be able to go live.
So, I'm looking forward to posting my P&L and posting more charts.
I don't believe I posted this chart, this is my latest tick replay.
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/1149/snapshot344lm.png
If I did, I'm sorry. But I don't think I have.
There should be a support line at 670 as well, just note that.
And again, pay close attention that I am always short at resistance and long at support.
Not every single trade worked in my favor, and when they didn't, I took profit on one, and I broke even by a stop that was on my initial entry.
Once I enter a trade, and it does not hit my stop immediately, but starts to move in a favorable direction, I move it at my initial entry price. If anything goes wrong for any reason, I break even, I don't take a bad trade. I can sit out for as long as I need and see what is happening and take action accordingly, or if I'm not liking what I'm seeing, I would most likely sit out and wait to see something better.
The thing I like about the idea of trading this way, is that you don't have to catch every little move.... you can make one trade a day and be pretty successful.
One entry at extreme low support and take profits at the top, was all someone needed. I'd be thrilled with that. Once you identify who is in control, it should be easy for someone to execute a trade that'll make a pretty good amount of profit. If not, there is a lot of channeling between a support and resistance line, and I'd just take advantage of that all day long, making sure to buy at support and sell at resistance.
I know lots of people have their doubt about how this could possibly work.
But just look at my charts. I have already proven it possible and I'm still pretty new to trading compared to many of you. So, it is possible.... you just have to buy at support, and sell at resistance. If you did this all day long, without even considering current market conditions at all, no emotion, but just bought at support and sold at resistance, and took profits at the next area of resistance or support, I'd imagine that you could very well have a nice day.
Just look at my above chart and picture buying at the blue lines *AGAIN, There should be a support line at 10670, without that line, it looks kinda strange*.... but if you did that, and you liked that way of trading, you should have done very nice for yourself that day. There is maybe 2 or 3 spots where the price was in the middle of a breakout where if you bought or sold at the correct area, you would have been stopped out, but other than that, if you had a tight stop, every single other trade could have easily made up for it.
I don't advise doing this, I would rather analyze the market to see who is in control, and be on that side for the day... if the buyers are in control for the day, be long as much as possible, and take profits at resistance, but be cautious to the fact that if you go short at resistance, it is possible for a breakout.
So, I know I keep basically saying the same thing over and over... but it works. It isn't 100%, but nothing is, and if you look at the majority of my charts, i bet you didn't see any trades for a loss, if you did, you might have seen it on one or two charts, and that resulted from me misjudging support and resistance and executing a trade at the wrong spot.
So.... maybe if you just take a day to try this method... no other indicators, just trying to identify these areas, and doing what I have said, and what my mentor has tought me so far. Maybe the people that don't think it is possible... maybe they could see it for themselves.
Of course it is no loss to me if you don't care, but I just want to help anyone out that wants it... I know I'm new to trading, but maybe the perspective of a new trader... that has a very good chance of being successful would be a good perspective to some people that have done the same thing for a long time and maybe not completely successful.
That is all for tonight, it's 12:30, I got school tomorrow. So make some good trades for me while I am again suffering in school.
Good luck to all.
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/1149/snapshot344lm.png
If I did, I'm sorry. But I don't think I have.
There should be a support line at 670 as well, just note that.
And again, pay close attention that I am always short at resistance and long at support.
Not every single trade worked in my favor, and when they didn't, I took profit on one, and I broke even by a stop that was on my initial entry.
Once I enter a trade, and it does not hit my stop immediately, but starts to move in a favorable direction, I move it at my initial entry price. If anything goes wrong for any reason, I break even, I don't take a bad trade. I can sit out for as long as I need and see what is happening and take action accordingly, or if I'm not liking what I'm seeing, I would most likely sit out and wait to see something better.
The thing I like about the idea of trading this way, is that you don't have to catch every little move.... you can make one trade a day and be pretty successful.
One entry at extreme low support and take profits at the top, was all someone needed. I'd be thrilled with that. Once you identify who is in control, it should be easy for someone to execute a trade that'll make a pretty good amount of profit. If not, there is a lot of channeling between a support and resistance line, and I'd just take advantage of that all day long, making sure to buy at support and sell at resistance.
I know lots of people have their doubt about how this could possibly work.
But just look at my charts. I have already proven it possible and I'm still pretty new to trading compared to many of you. So, it is possible.... you just have to buy at support, and sell at resistance. If you did this all day long, without even considering current market conditions at all, no emotion, but just bought at support and sold at resistance, and took profits at the next area of resistance or support, I'd imagine that you could very well have a nice day.
Just look at my above chart and picture buying at the blue lines *AGAIN, There should be a support line at 10670, without that line, it looks kinda strange*.... but if you did that, and you liked that way of trading, you should have done very nice for yourself that day. There is maybe 2 or 3 spots where the price was in the middle of a breakout where if you bought or sold at the correct area, you would have been stopped out, but other than that, if you had a tight stop, every single other trade could have easily made up for it.
I don't advise doing this, I would rather analyze the market to see who is in control, and be on that side for the day... if the buyers are in control for the day, be long as much as possible, and take profits at resistance, but be cautious to the fact that if you go short at resistance, it is possible for a breakout.
So, I know I keep basically saying the same thing over and over... but it works. It isn't 100%, but nothing is, and if you look at the majority of my charts, i bet you didn't see any trades for a loss, if you did, you might have seen it on one or two charts, and that resulted from me misjudging support and resistance and executing a trade at the wrong spot.
So.... maybe if you just take a day to try this method... no other indicators, just trying to identify these areas, and doing what I have said, and what my mentor has tought me so far. Maybe the people that don't think it is possible... maybe they could see it for themselves.
Of course it is no loss to me if you don't care, but I just want to help anyone out that wants it... I know I'm new to trading, but maybe the perspective of a new trader... that has a very good chance of being successful would be a good perspective to some people that have done the same thing for a long time and maybe not completely successful.
That is all for tonight, it's 12:30, I got school tomorrow. So make some good trades for me while I am again suffering in school.
Good luck to all.
Jmowery, I just want to point out that S and R are not always easily defined. It is easy to draw the lines after the fact but the tricky part is doing it during the day before the chart is made.
Are you drawing these lines or is your mentor ?
Are you drawing these lines or is your mentor ?
I drew those lines.
That is live replay data, so I have to create those lines. I only see support and resistance lines from him when I'm actually home to trade during the day *which again, I have school*, and his charts are much more unique and better structures. Especially when he sends me charts with commentary. So, yes, those are my lines, my trades, the best I can do on my own with simulation.
BUT... Replays only let you see the data in the replay, I can't see data before the replay starts playing, so the first day of the replay is horrible for S&R because I have no previous days to judge what is happening, but even then, I still can get a feel after the first few hours of what is going on, but still I have limited data on which to base support and resistance... so it is very complicated at times, but after the 2nd or 3rd day I can accurately see what S & R is.
S and R indeed isn't always easily defined. That is why in the earlier parts of the day, it is important *for myself and my mentor who is always on target* to know who will be in control for the day, that way I can execute a trade to take advantage of that and let it roll.
Like I said earlier, some days feel a lot better to me and I can execute very few trades and take advantage of it without much work. Those are days where support and resistance is more easily defined. But some days I end up having 10 + S and R lines drawn. Even those days, I again take pretty good gains, I make up in what I don't know in support and resistance, by making more trades to take advantage of smaller movements that look very likely, on those days though, I might miss out on a good chunk of a big move, but still do pretty well.
Again, having a mentor to help with tons of experience is a big help for me when I don't understand what is happening or who is in control, or where S and R is.
I mostly do it myself during trading, because again, I use historical data to test, and I have to do everything myself with that, so all the charts I post that I have trades marked all day when I execute is past replay data that I'm not aware of *what would be the point of using data you already know* to test my abilities with support and resistance.
For example, my mentor had a 1 replay file from a year ago, and it seemed to be different in some ways that was hard for me to recognize, and I didn't perform as well as I would have wanted. But still good learning experience.
So, generally I have a good idea of where support and resistance is... but sometimes I'll be off, or it'll take a few more touches for me to realize that I had executed a trade in the wrong spot. And the times when I do make trades that take a loss, is exactly when there was a failure by me to identify S & R, and that has happened twice, to take 2 bad trades that lost money. But 2 losing trades out of.... what seems more than 300 trades *I don't know for sure how many trades I have made in demo, it might be 1k, it might be 100, I can't really take a guess, but somewhere around 300 sounds good*, but I think to do that well on a simulation is pretty good. I'm not making this stuff up either... it doesn't benefit me to do so, so I'm just letting you know i'm telling you the truth on this. I will tell you that I do have a lot of trades that hit stops where I have set to breakeven. Most of the times, I take profit on one contract and wait to see what the other contract does and have a stop set on my entry, so that is when I have a stop hit. But that happens very few times, but it does happen.
So, I agree with what you are saying Volente... do you find that some days it is easier to identify S & R, and you therefore make better trades?
The lines are always there, but determining whether they hold or fail is another story. I don't know if it is just natural or maybe just from year sof looking at charts and drawing trendlines but S & R just comes natural to me when looking at charts. When you say live replay, do you mean you watch the replay for 6.5 hours and draw the lines as you go ?
Here is a test
tell me what you see
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=^DJI&t=1d&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
Now let's go longer term
http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.web?c=$INDU,uu[h,a]daclyyay[dc][pc200!c50][vc60][iUb14!La12,26,9]&pref=G
Just curious does your mentor have a method of weaning you off of your relying on him for S & R ?
Here is a test
tell me what you see
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=^DJI&t=1d&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
Now let's go longer term
http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.web?c=$INDU,uu[h,a]daclyyay[dc][pc200!c50][vc60][iUb14!La12,26,9]&pref=G
Just curious does your mentor have a method of weaning you off of your relying on him for S & R ?