Would Bush have been impeached?

[Ricter]

Quote from Max E. Pad:

Might be one of the dumber questions I have ever seen posted on this site.

You are trying to argue against something that has already been established by the IRS, they already admit they intentionally targeted right wing groups.

My question is, how do you know it?

 

[budcampbell]

Quote from AK Forty Seven:

Bush did have a Fast and Furious and The IRS targeting democratic groups and he wasn't impeached










http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-second-bush-era-gun-smuggling-probe-202043091.html


AP Exclusive: Second Bush-era gun-smuggling probe


WASHINGTON (AP) — A second Bush administration gun-trafficking investigation has surfaced using the same controversial tactic for which congressional Republicans have been criticizing the Obama administration.

The tactic, called "gun walking," is already under investigation by the Justice Department's inspector general and by congressional Republicans, who have criticized the administration of Democratic President Barack Obama for letting it happen in an operation called "Fast and Furious".

Emails obtained by The Associated Press show how in a 2007 investigation in Phoenix, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives — depending on Mexican authorities to follow up — let guns "walk" across the border in an effort to identify higher-ups in gun networks. Justice Department policy has long required that illicit arms shipments be intercepted whenever possible.

The 2007 probe operated out of the same ATF office that more recently ran the flawed Operation Fast and Furious. Both probes resulted in weapons disappearing across the border into Mexico, according to the emails. The 2007 probe was relatively small — involving over 200 weapons, just a dozen of which ended up in Mexico as a result of gun-walking. Fast and Furious involved over 2,000 weapons, some 1,400 of which have not been recovered and an unknown number of which wound up in Mexico.

Earlier this month, it was disclosed that the gun-walking tactic didn't begin under Obama, but was also used in 2006 under his predecessor, George W. Bush. The probe, Operation Wide Receiver, was carried out by ATF's Tucson, Ariz., office and resulted in hundreds of guns being transferred to suspected arms traffickers.

The older gun-walking cases now coming to light from the Bush administration illustrate how ATF — particularly its Phoenix field division, encompassing Tucson, Ariz., as well as Phoenix — has struggled for years to counter criticism that its normal seize-and-arrest tactics never caught any trafficking kingpins and were little more than a minor irritant that didn't keep U.S. guns out of the hands of Mexican gangs.

Even those cases against low-level straw buyers are problematic for the ATF. There is no federal firearms trafficking law, making it difficult to prosecute cases. So law enforcement agencies resort to a wide variety of laws that do not carry stringent penalties — particularly for straw buyers.

Documents and emails relating to the 2007 case were produced or made available months ago to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, though the Republicans on the panel have said little about them. In the congressional investigation, committee chairman Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., has focused on the questions of what Obama's Attorney General, Eric Holder, knew about Fast and Furious, and when he knew it.

The 2007 probe began when an ATF agent identified several suspects from Mexico who bought weapons from a gun shop in Phoenix over a span of several months.

According to the emails obtained by AP, the probe ran into trouble after agents saw the same suspects buy additional weapons from the same store and followed the suspects south toward the border at Nogales, Ariz., on Sept. 27, 2007. ATF officials notified the government of Mexico to be on the lookout. ATF agents saw the vehicle the suspects were driving reach the Mexican side of the border, but 20 minutes later, Mexican law enforcement authorities informed ATF that they did not see the vehicle.

Committee spokesman Frederick Hill said the documents on the 2007 probe stand in contrast to statements "the Obama administration's Justice Department made to Congress in February 2011 that 'ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico.'"

Hill added that one difference between the 2007 incident and Operation Fast and Furious was that in the 2007 operation, "Mexican authorities were notified. However, in Operation Fast and Furious the Mexican authorities were deliberately kept in the dark."

The emails from the 2007 probe show there was concern that ATF in Arizona had engaged in a tactic that resulted in the guns disappearing inside Mexico.

"Have we discussed the strategy with the US Attorney's Office re letting the guns walk?" headquarters official William Hoover asked in an Oct. 4, 2007 email to William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division.

"Do we have this approval in writing?" asked Hoover. "Have we discussed and thought thru the consequences of same? Are we tracking south of the border? Same re US Attorney's Office. Did we find out why they missed the hand-off of the vehicle?"

At the time, Hoover was assistant director for the office of field operations. He was ATF's deputy director from May 2009 to September 2011 and is now special agent in charge of ATF's Washington, D.C., field division.

"Would like your opinion on a verbal approval from the US Attorney in Phoenix re the firearms walking," Hoover emailed ATF's senior legal counsel for field operations on Oct. 5, 2007. "This is a major investigation with huge political implications and great potential if all goes well. We must also be very prepared if it doesn't go well."

The lawyer, Anne Marie Paskalis, wrote back: "Sure. We will work this out. Perhaps a conference call ... to discuss what if any assurances they have received from USAO that this investigation is operating within the law and doj (Department of Justice) guidelines."

On Oct. 5, Hoover wrote Carson Carroll, then ATF's assistant director for enforcement programs and services at agency headquarters in Washington, D.C., saying "I do not want any firearms to go South until further notice. I expect a full briefing paper on my desk Tuesday morning from SAC Newell with every question answered. I will not allow this case to go forward until we have written documentation from the US Attorney's office re full and complete buy in. I do not want anyone briefed on this case until I approve the information. This includes anyone in Mexico."

On Oct. 6, Newell, the Phoenix SAC, wrote Carroll: "I think we both understand the extremely positive potential for a case such as this but at this point I'm so frustrated with this whole mess I'm shutting the case down and any further attempts to do something similar. We're done trying to pursue new and innovative initiatives — it's not worth the hassle."

Newell, as the special agent in charge of the Phoenix division, was at the center of Operation Fast and Furious. He has acknowledged that mistakes were made in the agency's handling of the operation, and has been reassigned to a Washington headquarters job.

















http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/irs-targeted-naacp-in-2004-91284.html


IRS targeted NAACP in 2004


This isn't the first time the IRS has been in hot water for meddling in the politics of nonprofits. And if past is prelude, the Obama administration may have a years-long scandal on its hands.

In 2004, the NAACP was hit with an audit over accusations of improper political activity for criticizing the Bush administration.

"We have received information that during your 2004 convention in Philadelphia, your organization distributed statements in opposition of George W. Bush for the office of presidency," the IRS wrote in an audit notice that the group released to the media at the time.

Auditors also notified the group that it could be subject to a 10 percent tax for political expenditures as well as a 2.5 percent tax on any manager that signed off on the political activity.

The NAACP went public and sparked a now-familiar firestorm. Democrats in Congress were up in arms and called for answers about what constitutes political activity and questioning the political motivations of the agency.

Rep. Charles Rangel, the top Democrat on the Ways and Means Committee at the time, called the audit a police state tactic. Max Baucus, then the ranking member on the Senate Finance Committee, sent a letter to then-IRS Commissioner Mark Everson demanding answers to a list of questions about other similar audits.

“The integrity of our tax enforcement system is a critical matter,” Baucus wrote at the time. “The American public expects a high degree of non-partisanship and professionalism from the IRS."

The agency denied a culture of bias. They said the audit was triggered by staffers in a satellite office, this time in Kentucky.

It took more than two years and a lengthy legal battle for the IRS to drop its case against the NAACP. That was all well before the Supreme Court unleashed a flood of political groups into the IRS pool with its Citizens United decision.

“It caught the IRS completely flatfooted,” Lloyd Mayer, one of the attorneys that represented the NAACP in the case, told POLITICO on Monday. “They had never even thought of the possibility that one of their audit targets would go public and accuse the agency of bias.”










Terrorists killed more then 2800 Americans on Bushes watch then Obamas watch and Bush lies to start an illegal war is far worse then any lies Obama told and he wasn't impeached

Deflect....make excuses......deflect.......this is the only defense these people have left. Your boy is in trouble.....let us see if he can lie out of this one and get away with it.

 

[Max E.]

Quote from Ricter:

My question is, how do you know it?

Are you intentionally being obtuse? How do you know there is oxygen in the air?


The fucking IRS already admitted to it, and came clean that they were indeed targeting conservative groups, what do you think that they made this up just for fun?

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Max E. Pad:

Are you intentionally being obtuse? How do you know there is oxygen in the air?

The fucking IRS already admitted to it, and came clean that they were indeed targeting conservative groups, what do you think that they made this up just for fun?

The oxygen question would be a good one for jem.

Anyway, I ask because here are all of your P&R posts for today (so far):

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3804135#post3804135
"assholes", "asswipes", "assholes"

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3804171#post3804171
"retard", "grow up"

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3804212#post3804212
"dumber"

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3804218#post3804218
"obtuse", "fucking"

You should take a vacation, I think you need a break.

 

[Max E.]

Thx for the tip, Im actually going to live in thailand for 3 months right away. That still doesnt change the fact that you are rambling like an incoherent drunk.

Quote from Ricter:


You should take a vacation, I think you need a break.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Max E. Pad:

Thx for the tip, Im actually going to live in thailand for 3 months right away.

Sounds fun.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from budcampbell:

It is not hate, at least not from myself. But I do despise corrupt people. This President is a corrupt individual. I guess that is fine with you and the rest, huh? You are blinded by your bias, the very thing you accuse conservatives of. And don't bring up any of his predecessors, as that has not got a damn thing to do with his term in office.

+ $16.8 Trillion...and counting...

I despise Odumbo because he's a liar a traitor a tyrant an idiot and an unqualified empty suit.

Not because he's black as so many of his gullible not too bright worshipers would like to think. Had Cain gotten the nomination I would have voted for him over Obummer without giving it a thought.

 

[budcampbell]

Quote from Lucrum:

+ $16.8 Trillion...and counting...

I despise Odumbo because he's a liar a traitor a tyrant an idiot and an unqualified empty suit.

Not because he's black as so many of his gullible not too bright worshipers would like to think. Had Cain gotten the nomination I would have voted for him over Obummer without giving it a thought.

I feel the same way. Justice Clarence Thomas, does not like Obama, says he is the elitists choice and someone they can control. US has several qualified black men, but a conservative black President would be the Democrat's worst nightmare. I disliked Obama from the start based on ideological grounds. And everyone knows he got in office for reasons other than competence and leadership. He has been a miserable President, and he ain't even black, but a mutation.

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from Ricter:

Sounds fun.

umm doesn't sound like you are invited dipshit.

 

[Ricter]

Darrell Issa: 'You Don't Accuse The IRS Until You've Had A Nonpartisan, Deep Look'

"WASHINGTON -- Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said earlier this week in a little-noticed interview that he knew "approximately" what the IRS inspector general would report about selective targeting of conservative groups, but that it wasn't appropriate to "accuse the IRS until you've had a nonpartisan, deep look."

"The comments back up the White House argument that administration officials did not know enough about the investigation to condemn the IRS until the IG completed his work recently. A Treasury Department official, Neal Wolin, was informed that the IG was looking into the situation this past summer, a revelation the media and GOP have seized on to suggest the White House may have covered up the scandal in the midst of a campaign.

"Issa is chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

"I know approximately what's in it," Issa told Bloomberg Businessweek on Monday when asked if he knew what would be in the report. "I knew what was approximately in it when we made the allegations about a year ago. This is one of those things where it's been, in a sense, an open secret, but you don't accuse the IRS until you've had a nonpartisan, deep look. That's what the IG has done. That's why the IGs in fact exist within government, is to find this kind of waste and fraud and abuse of power."

"Issa, according to an aide, asked the IG for an investigation last spring, after hearing allegations of selective targeting of conservative groups. The IG told him in a letter this summer that he was looking into it.

"The groups singled-out were applying for nonprofit status as "social welfare" organizations, a loophole that allows political groups to conceal donors and accept unlimited contributions."