Worst Trade In NFL History?
- Thread starter AAAintheBeltway
- Start date
1) Yes, both QB's unproven for a lot of draft picks vs. a proven pro bowl QB for a lot of draft picks = bad example.
SORRY YOU WERE TOO THICK TO GRASP.
Way to put thought into that one. It took you all night to figure out that a proven commodity isn't comprable to the draft, didn't it?
2) The Giants have won the superbowl since that trade, the Chargers have not. That is the bottom line. Championships. However it needs to get done. In the Bears case, we didn't have the QB to do it in '06-'07.
STUPID ANALOGY. MOST TEAMS DON'T WIN A SUPERBOWL SINCE A RECENT TRADE, SO NOT A USEFUL COMPARATOR.
Haha. I digress. Throw all the players in the trade out the window because they were involved in a transaction that led to a superbowl. Unbelieveable.
CHARGERS SINCE THAT TRADE: 2008: 8-8, 2007: 11-5, 2006: 14-2, 2005: 9-7, 2004: 11-5 total W-L: 53-27
GIANTS SINCE THAT TRADE: 2008: 12-4, 2007: 10-6, 2006: 8-8, 2005: 11-5, 2004: 6-10 total W-L: 49-31
TOO BAD. CHARGERS WON 4 MORE GAMES SINCE THEN - A MUCH MORE USEFUL METRIC. AND AS I ALREADY SAID, IT IS ONE PLAYER. THE CHARGERS GOT AN EQUIVALENT QB IN TALENT, AND THE DRAFT CHOICES GAINED THEM TWO PRO BOWLERS IN ADDITION.
Oh yeah. That's my bad. I forgot that winning championships should be placed behind four less wins over a five year period. That's why Cubs fans are seen everywhere celebrating the most wins in the NL last season, right? Seriously, they don't care about the fact they were swept out of the playoffs. As long as they keep winning that NL Central you won't hear about the 100+ years, will ya? CHAMPIONSHIPS...PERIOD!
3) Injuries...they are a concern for every player. When making a trade, when drafting, when evaluating, etc...Yes, it's in the future, the best we can do is look at their past.
I still don't get your point. THAT WAS OBVIOUS. I SAID CLEARLY, IT MAKES NO SENSE TO GIVE UP A LOT OF DRAFT CHOICES OR TALENT FOR ONE PERSON, GIVEN THAT INJURY MIGHT SIDELINE. I AM SORRY THAT WAS HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND - I THOUGHT PEOPLE HERE SPOKE ENGLISH.
Keep bangin' away there, chief. Injuries, injuries, injuries. I'll take the pro bowl franchise QB who has a CHANCE of being injured like every other QB vs. the draft picks that have a much higher % chance of being a bust in the NFL.
You keep going back to Merriman in that trade, right? Answer my question. How many games has he missed due to a positive steroids test vs. Jay Cutler due to injury?
SORRY YOU WERE TOO THICK TO GRASP.
Way to put thought into that one. It took you all night to figure out that a proven commodity isn't comprable to the draft, didn't it?
2) The Giants have won the superbowl since that trade, the Chargers have not. That is the bottom line. Championships. However it needs to get done. In the Bears case, we didn't have the QB to do it in '06-'07.
STUPID ANALOGY. MOST TEAMS DON'T WIN A SUPERBOWL SINCE A RECENT TRADE, SO NOT A USEFUL COMPARATOR.
Haha. I digress. Throw all the players in the trade out the window because they were involved in a transaction that led to a superbowl. Unbelieveable.
CHARGERS SINCE THAT TRADE: 2008: 8-8, 2007: 11-5, 2006: 14-2, 2005: 9-7, 2004: 11-5 total W-L: 53-27
GIANTS SINCE THAT TRADE: 2008: 12-4, 2007: 10-6, 2006: 8-8, 2005: 11-5, 2004: 6-10 total W-L: 49-31
TOO BAD. CHARGERS WON 4 MORE GAMES SINCE THEN - A MUCH MORE USEFUL METRIC. AND AS I ALREADY SAID, IT IS ONE PLAYER. THE CHARGERS GOT AN EQUIVALENT QB IN TALENT, AND THE DRAFT CHOICES GAINED THEM TWO PRO BOWLERS IN ADDITION.
Oh yeah. That's my bad. I forgot that winning championships should be placed behind four less wins over a five year period. That's why Cubs fans are seen everywhere celebrating the most wins in the NL last season, right? Seriously, they don't care about the fact they were swept out of the playoffs. As long as they keep winning that NL Central you won't hear about the 100+ years, will ya? CHAMPIONSHIPS...PERIOD!
3) Injuries...they are a concern for every player. When making a trade, when drafting, when evaluating, etc...Yes, it's in the future, the best we can do is look at their past.
I still don't get your point. THAT WAS OBVIOUS. I SAID CLEARLY, IT MAKES NO SENSE TO GIVE UP A LOT OF DRAFT CHOICES OR TALENT FOR ONE PERSON, GIVEN THAT INJURY MIGHT SIDELINE. I AM SORRY THAT WAS HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND - I THOUGHT PEOPLE HERE SPOKE ENGLISH.
Keep bangin' away there, chief. Injuries, injuries, injuries. I'll take the pro bowl franchise QB who has a CHANCE of being injured like every other QB vs. the draft picks that have a much higher % chance of being a bust in the NFL.
You keep going back to Merriman in that trade, right? Answer my question. How many games has he missed due to a positive steroids test vs. Jay Cutler due to injury?
Ticktaker,
I think his point could be restated that the Giants with Rivers at QB and with the two additional All Pros the picks turned into would be a better team. Hard to argue with that. Rivers is at least as good as Manning.
Does the fact the Giants won the Super Bowl make it a good deal? Only if you can argue that they wouldn't have done so without Manning. I don't buy that. They won in spite of a terribly bad deal. They're not likely to be going back anytime soon either.
The one thing in favor of the Bears' deal is that they are getting a proven QB, not a rookie. The point I keep going back to however is that he looked good playing for Denver. So did Clinton Portis, and he hasn't come close to duplicating his Denver numbers.
I think his point could be restated that the Giants with Rivers at QB and with the two additional All Pros the picks turned into would be a better team. Hard to argue with that. Rivers is at least as good as Manning.
Does the fact the Giants won the Super Bowl make it a good deal? Only if you can argue that they wouldn't have done so without Manning. I don't buy that. They won in spite of a terribly bad deal. They're not likely to be going back anytime soon either.
The one thing in favor of the Bears' deal is that they are getting a proven QB, not a rookie. The point I keep going back to however is that he looked good playing for Denver. So did Clinton Portis, and he hasn't come close to duplicating his Denver numbers.
Believe me, I think I've made my point clear about the Giants/Chargers trade...that it was a bad example to begin with and the only thing that we have to look at currently, is a superbowl trophy for the Giants. Other than that, go back and look at how many times I've said it's an awful comparison.
Yes, your point is well taken concerning the production after the trade, ie...Portis. The majority of Bears fans understand that we might not see a 4,500 yard performance next season. We also understand that Cutler is extremely talented and will open up the run game to compliment his passing game because of his exceptional ability...as I have also stated before. This will help our entire offensive side of the ball.
Yes, you made the point that you did not understand the point.
someone spoke of evaluating quarterbacks.
two things....
1. You should not pick dopes, no matter what. quarterbacks do not have to rocket scientists but it clearly helps if they can learn quickly. I do not have access to their test scores. But, overtime you can see it in the way answer questions. If you get the cliches with a smile all the time, you are looking at Ryan Leaf or Vick. Arms with no brains.
2. You only pick qbs that can still delivery a an accurate hard pass when the feet are not perfectly underneath them. I want a guy who can throw a hard accurate ball while falling backwards.
Many top college qbs can deliver a nice ball when they can take their drop steps - step in and fire.
But they can't hit the side of a barn if they are off balance.
It comes down to the guys who can deliver a strong pass with a short accelerated motion. Almost a wrist snap from the ear. Romo, Cutler, Warner, Roethlisberger and of course Favre. All excellent examples of what I am talking about. Its not necessarily throwing hard. its being able to throw well when you are off balance or when you have to change you motion because there is a helmet in your way.
Some guys let the ball float out of their hands. If they move their entire arm fast it can float out pretty hard but they have to be able to step in and be in rhythm. You want a guy who can throw completions when out of rhythm.
The guys I named above can direct a ball, almost jam it in their with a powerful snap from the ear forward. Those are the guys who have the arm you want to draft.
Once you start to look for this, you immediately start to get suspicious of all the college qbs with long wind up motions. I also get suspicious of guys who are also trying to use perfect motions and pretty follow throughs. At some point in time an athlete gets his own style. They almost teach you something about proper mechanics.
Many of the top picks who fail are very mechanical in their motions. mechanics break down in the face of NFL pressure.
two things....
1. You should not pick dopes, no matter what. quarterbacks do not have to rocket scientists but it clearly helps if they can learn quickly. I do not have access to their test scores. But, overtime you can see it in the way answer questions. If you get the cliches with a smile all the time, you are looking at Ryan Leaf or Vick. Arms with no brains.
2. You only pick qbs that can still delivery a an accurate hard pass when the feet are not perfectly underneath them. I want a guy who can throw a hard accurate ball while falling backwards.
Many top college qbs can deliver a nice ball when they can take their drop steps - step in and fire.
But they can't hit the side of a barn if they are off balance.
It comes down to the guys who can deliver a strong pass with a short accelerated motion. Almost a wrist snap from the ear. Romo, Cutler, Warner, Roethlisberger and of course Favre. All excellent examples of what I am talking about. Its not necessarily throwing hard. its being able to throw well when you are off balance or when you have to change you motion because there is a helmet in your way.
Some guys let the ball float out of their hands. If they move their entire arm fast it can float out pretty hard but they have to be able to step in and be in rhythm. You want a guy who can throw completions when out of rhythm.
The guys I named above can direct a ball, almost jam it in their with a powerful snap from the ear forward. Those are the guys who have the arm you want to draft.
Once you start to look for this, you immediately start to get suspicious of all the college qbs with long wind up motions. I also get suspicious of guys who are also trying to use perfect motions and pretty follow throughs. At some point in time an athlete gets his own style. They almost teach you something about proper mechanics.
Many of the top picks who fail are very mechanical in their motions. mechanics break down in the face of NFL pressure.
Question: why the heck isn't Denver making it clear that Hillis will be their starter?!? The guy was kicking major ass before he got injured. IMO he showed he can flat-out run the ball and bowl over defenders. So what does Denver do? They go out and pick up tons of RBs in free agency, i.e. Buckhalter, JJ Arrington, et al...
I'm no football expert, but with Hillis & Torain (who also got hurt after playing well) why the plethora of RBs?