Work out? Eat right? You winners of life's lottery . . .

[Lucrum]

Quote from Gabfly1:

I wasn't planning to. Really. But you made a flip comment. Also your last post to me in the cigarette thread was fairly flippant, but I let that one go. I can only give you so much leeway.

Apparently flip/flippant will be Gabby's word du jour.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Health Care costs will come down when we quit spending a fortune on people that are going to be dead in six months anyway. Survivor's guilt, ain't it a bitch, but very profitable for the Doc's, lawyers and insurance companies.

 

[loik]

Quote from Ricter:

In the more socialistic countries would we find a large(r) percentage of health "freeriders"? I mean, have the citizens of those countries abandoned healthy lifestyles since all their healthcare is "taken care of"?

Yes, I live in Norway, and there are alot of sick people here(or it might be thanks to the generous welfare system).

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from CaptainObvious:

Health Care costs will come down when we quit spending a fortune on people that are going to be dead in six months anyway. Survivor's guilt, ain't it a bitch, but very profitable for the Doc's, lawyers and insurance companies.

You might feel differently if you were the one getting the care or your mom or dad. Somehow I doubt you'd be saying," no, save the money for the illegal immigrants and their twelve kids."

You do have a point, in that a lot of expensive care is used in the last month or so of elderly people's lives, but it is not always so easy to know if they will die or recover. I do draw the line at painful surgery and useless, CYA tests when the outcome is clear. What I find absolutely appalling is a UK-type system where expensive procedures are denied people on the grounds they are too old, etc, simply to save money.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from 377OHMS:

Agree.

You cannot force people to be in the insurance business. If the climate becomes unfavorable they will quit the market like any other money would. Insurance is about Underwriters who are basically just investors. If the underwriters don't wish to back additionally policies there is nothing the government can do...maybe.

The government might say you must take all new policies if you are to do business. That would force many out of the market completely. So demand for insurance increases but availability decreases and prices rise.

I think its a system for establishing national healthcare in the form of socialized medicine. Socialized medicine is a lead-in for socialization of other services.

Absolutely spot on. They want to drive insurance companies out of the business or make it too expensive for most people to be covered so that they clamor for a government system.

I'm beginning to think the same mindset is at work in the gulf oil spill. Why else make it impossible for louisiana to protect its coast with barrier islands? Why impound barges sucking up oil for spurious paperwork violations? Who's in charge of this anyway? Say what youwant about Bush and Katrina, but at least he didn't impede the state's efforts.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

You might feel differently if you were the one getting the care or your mom or dad. Somehow I doubt you'd be saying," no, save the money for the illegal immigrants and their twelve kids."

You do have a point, in that a lot of expensive care is used in the last month or so of elderly people's lives, but it is not always so easy to know if they will die or recover. I do draw the line at painful surgery and useless, CYA tests when the outcome is clear. What I find absolutely appalling is a UK-type system where expensive procedures are denied people on the grounds they are too old, etc, simply to save money.

I certainly don't support spending the money on illegals, but at some point the time comes where people are spending absurd amounts of money just to prolong life another month or two, especially in the 80+ crowd. That's nut's in my book.
Personally, I hope to have the courage of my convictions when it comes my time. I have no interest in hanging on just because I can still suck air. Quality of life has always been a priority for me. I rather be dead today than spend years in some nursing home, and I've visited those places. No thanks!

 

[Ricter]

Quote from loik:

Yes, I live in Norway, and there are alot of sick people here(or it might be thanks to the generous welfare system).

Do you think, based on what you've seen, that Norwegians are sicker on average than Americans?

 

[Ricter]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

...What I find absolutely appalling is a UK-type system where expensive procedures are denied people on the grounds they are too old, etc, simply to save money.

That's where the "have money" healthcare distribution model kicks in though, right? If they are wealthy, they can go elsewhere for expensive procedures, can't they? Just asking. Seems like the best of both worlds.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from Ricter:

That's where the "have money" healthcare distribution model kicks in though, right? If they are wealthy, they can go elsewhere for expensive procedures, can't they? Just asking. Seems like the best of both worlds.

So you pay into a system your entire life for health care, but when you really need it you have to go somewhere else or pay for it yourself? No thanks.

Sarah Palin nailed this early on. The government will be forced to set up boards of bureaucrats ("death panels") to decide who gets lifesaving yet expensive procedures. Wanna bet this will be handled any more honestly than FNM's accounting and bonus grants?

 

[Ricter]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

So you pay into a system your entire life for health care, but when you really need it you have to go somewhere else or pay for it yourself? No thanks.

Sarah Palin nailed this early on. The government will be forced to set up boards of bureaucrats ("death panels") to decide who gets lifesaving yet expensive procedures. Wanna bet this will be handled any more honestly than FNM's accounting and bonus grants?

Well, it doesn't make sense that everyone is going to pay into the system their entire life at a level where everyone can get access to the most expensive procedures even if they're really old, particularly if everyone will not want that most extreme level. Well, unless everyone wants to pay that much. No, it's better that we all pay into a system for reasonable "minimum wage" of care, and if you think you want extra care, then "have money". You're reasonably covered if you've made peace with your mortality, but if you are scared of death and want that coupla extra weeks, then you can buy more time with your own money.