Why predict?

Quote from jack hershey:

JACK TAKING EACH POINT AS IT COMES then: (i APOLOGIZE SINCERELY TO THOSE THAT HAVE TO READ MY CAPS.. BUT THIS WAS NECCESARYIN ORDER TO EASILY DISTINGUISH MY WORDS FROM MR HERSHY WITH WHOM i HAVE PROFOUNDLY DIFFERING OPINIONS.


I wrote what I wrote to be helpful. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION JACK.. ALWATS WELCOME

Right now I am culling through over 10,000 pages to build piles...five piles. CLARIFY.. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT "PILE" YOUR REFERRING TO..CAN YOU ELABORATE WITHOUT SUPERFLUOUS VERBOSITY?

Perhaps they will be helpful in the future for those who wish to manually trade somewhere. THATS VERY NOBEL TO GIVE.. CAN YOU CONTEXTUALISE SO AS NOT TO CONFUSE THOSE LESS MENTALLY ABLE THAN YOURSELF PLEASE?.. THANKS..

It is clear that the market does not jump around. (..!!!!!!...NO COMMENT...!!!)

It is also clear that the movement of the market operating point is a transition through multi-dimensioned space. (jACK.. YOUR TALKING NONSENSE TO ME.. AND i LOVE SPACE, TIME, ENTAGLEMENT, PHOTONIC INTERACTIONS WITH MATTER, THE ELECTRO.. SPECTRUM AND THE FACT THAT SPACE ITSELF IS ACTUALLY EXPANDING FASTER (NOT MORE SLOWLY) THAN WE AS A SPECIES PRESUMED.. BUT AS FAR AS YOU HAVE INTIMATED.. I AM LOST ALREADY..CLARITY IS A VIRTUE..EXPLAIN PLEASE....THANKS)

Once it becomes clear to a person how that path (WHAT PATH) is determined by using, more or less a counter intuitive rationale, (MY IQ IS 141 BUT STIL i AM UNSURE OF YOUR MUSINGS..PLEASE CLARIFY MY FREIND) he is able to very clearly anticipate from this ordered and scientifically based proven null hypothesis what is what right down to the tick level.
sORRY DUDE BUT THIS IS VERBOSITY GONE STARK RAVING MAD.. WHAT NULL HYPOTHESIS? A NULL HYPOTHESIS IS EFFECTIVELY A CONTROL (i SHOULD KNOW MY DEGREE WAS IN BIOCHEMISTRY... NO ONE OFTEN CONFUSES ME LIKE YOU DO..WHEN THEY REALLY MEAN SOMETHING.... NOT THAT iM BOASTING BUT CMON DUDE iM TRYING TO SHOW YOU.. YOUR TALKING NONSENSE OR YOUR THINKING IS CONFUSED.. PLEASE BE CLEAR AND CONSICE AND STICK TO THE ISSUE WITHOUT HYPERBOLE OR UNECESARY ADJECTIVES).

Just so everyone has it straight, (CHANCE WOULD BE A FINE THING) observations of the market are not what makes it so. (INTERSTING BUT WAY TOO VAGUE.. YOU WONT GET A DEGREE, LET ALONE A DOCTORATE OR EVEN HARVARD MBA WITH THIS KIND OF LANGUAGE, YOU WILL FAIL.. GET REAL SPEAK PROPERLY)

Now, 2007 is coming to a close (ITS THE 8TH MONTH ONLY)..???) and a period of contribution has been completed for putting PVT and SCT together in the journals in a step by step manual way. You will find it compares favorably with what else there is to chose from as one of many successful approaches. ( THIS IS SOUNDING SOPORIFIC NOW)

Shooting holes in things is a common enterprise. (ESPECIALLY WHEN EDUCATED PEOPLE FIND A LACK OF SUBTANCE IN OVERLY ESOTERIC AND UNNECCESARY WORDS.. YOU MAKE VERBOSITY LOOK SANE IN ALL WORKS OF LITERATURE)

I have chosen to not fill in the details that have been missed by those who do this. The reason is that their basic orientation to making money is not an orientation that leads to success, so I cannot help them in any way. (NOW THATS A COP OUT AND A COMPLETE ACKNOWLEGEMENT OF EVERYTHING I HAVE RAISED BEFORE) I AM ABSOLUTELY OPEN TO EDUCATION AND LEARNING LET ME ASSURE YOU YOU ARE DEALING WITH A SLIGHTLY ABOVE AVERAGE INDIVIDUAL BUT I BELIEVE YOU ARE INCOHERENT, OF POOR CLARITY IN THOUGHT, NOT EVEN WORTHY OF A DEGREE FROM A SENSIBLE UNIVERSITY AND WOULD FAIL MISERABLY ANY GMAT TEST SUCH IS YOUR RIDICULOUS CLAIMS REGARDLESS OF YOUR ABILITY TO CALL FOURTH A DISPARATE AND UNCONNECTED RANGE OF SCIENTIFIC SUBJECTS THAT BLIND THE WEAK AND BY PROXY REBUFF THOSE WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER... SO FAR I FIND YOU A CARICATURE OF SOMEONE ALLUDING TO NOTIONS OF ACADEMIC GRANDEUR WITHOUT THE ACADEMIC SKILLS REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN THAT POSITION.. YOU SIR (SO FAR A JOKE AND WOULDN'T LAST 20 MINUTES IN ANY IVY LEAGUE DEBATING SOCIETY FOR YOUR ASTONISHINGLY WAYWARD ARGUMENTS AND JUSTIFICATIONS... YOU REMIND ME OF A FRIND WHO LEFT SCHOOL AT 14... HE COULD BE A GREAT TRADER... MAYBE... BY A ULTRA-LONG SHOT BUT DUDE.. YOUR SO NOT KIDDING ME AND ENGLISHMAN WHO HAS WITNESSED MANY THINGS INCLUDING HIGH BROW LECTURERS AT THE VERY TOP OF THIER GAME.. ONE THING THEY ALL HAVE IN COMMON IS CLARITY OF THINKING.. OF PURPOSE AND FINDING A WAY OF COMMUNICATING AT LEAST THE NOTION OF THAT WITHOUT SUCH IDIOTIC VERBOSITY)


I can't help whiners either. Whining has no possitive orientation to being successful. (YES , RATHER LIKE A CRIMINAL WHO SAYS ILL FEED YOU COKE BUT IF YOU GRASS ON ME I WONT HELP YOU... NEXT IDEA PLEASE...).Children cease whining at about 4 years old, usually.(INCORRECT I KNOW ADULTS LIKE ME WHO WHINE WHEN THEY HAVE A BEE IN THIER BONNET. MY BEST FRIEND IS A WHINER... IF YOU EXPECT ALL YOUR FRIENDS TO BE PERFECT YOU WILL HAVE NO FREINDS... ACCEPT YOUR FRIENDS.. WARTS N ALL..)

Taking sufficient binary sets of data, repeatedly and following a routine of monitoring, analysis, decision making, and taking timely action is the definition of anticipation; it also coincides with front running the players in the game. (AND YOU PREVIOUSLY IMPLIED ANTICIPATION AS WELL AS PREDICTION HAD NO PLACE IN THE MARKETS.....)

At this point it is best for me to kind of retire from most threads and, perhaps, just help occasionally to do my part in winding down the journals as 2007 comes to an end. (YEAH... SURE...IN AUGUST...!!)

The conventional orthodoxy engenders to all who use it: fear, anxiety and anger, ultimately. For 50 years, I chose another path and paradigm. I passed it forward and people who decide to use it as they wish and they, in turn, pass it forward to others. That is going to continue. (YEP AS I ANTICIPATED.. YOU ARE TRYING TO CREATE HYPE IN OTRDER TO FURTHER YOUR CAUSE.. AND I PUT IT TO YOU THAT THAT IS EXACTLY THE REASON WHY YOU DECIDED TO POST ON THIS THREAD, NOTHING MORE.. BUT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LESS..

It is unbelievable and astonishing to those who do not understand it or do not use it. That is their choice. BUT I DONT FIND IT UNBELIEVABLE AND ASTONISHING.. ONLY UNLIKLEY AND PERHAPS DIFFICULT... AND LET ME ALSO ADD.. I DONT BELIEVE YOU ARE BY THE FRUITS OF YOUR OWN RESULTS PERHAPS MANAGING A HEDGE FUND, PART OF AN INVESTMENT BANK, RUNNING YOUR OWN PRO PSHOP , ABLE TO POST THE RESULTS OF YOUR WORK OR EVEN OR EVEN PUBLISHED MANY TIMES OVER ARE YOU?.. LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE ANY OF THESE SO I CAN ACCESS MORE OF YOUR "MUSINGS"

Choice has consequences,(& IT WOULD SEEM YOU WERE REJECTED FROM EVERY INVESTMENT BANK AND HEDGE FUND ALSO....AT THE AGE OF 71 ....YES?) especially in the conventional orthodoxy which had an over 90% mortality rate. (STEADY iM A BIOCHEMIST.. ITS ONE IN 3 WHO IN AN AVERAGE LIFETIME WILL EXPERIENCE CANCER.. MORTALITY IS FAR MORE COMPLICATED BECAUSE OF DIFFERENT LIFESTYLE CHIOCES..AND GEOGRAPHY TO MAKE IT UTTERLY SIMPLE), The many successful conventional orthodoxy methods (VERBOSE) and those methods outside of that box (BAD ENGLISH) account for those who survive(NO NO NO!! YOU ARE MISTAKEN!!! WHAT ABOUT CONVENTIONAL PEOPLES WHO ARE SUBJECT TO A NATURAL "IN-BORN-ERROR-OF-METABOLISM" SUCH AS GENETIC DISEASES THAT APPEAR OUTSIDE OF SOCIETIES CONTROL INCLUDING CANCERS AND DEBILITATING DISEASES LIKE HYDROCEPHALUS, CONGENITAL HEART PROBLEMS AND SHORT (dna) TELOMERS.. IN THOSE WHO WILL DIE EARLY THROUGH NATURALLY GENETIC ISSUES.. ITS A CRUEL WORLD MY FRIEND.. REALISE THAT!!) Most people are so far gone that they cannot switch to anything else to survive in any paradigm. BUT IT WOULD SEEM YOU CANNOT ADJUST TO MY "PARADIGM" OF CLARITY... I HAVE NEVER HEARD SUCH NONSENSE IN MY LIFE...

Most popular press journalists and the contemporary writers carry forth the conventional orthodoxy. (YOUR OVERUSE OF THE WORD OTHODOXY IS CLOUDING YOUR ALREADY WANTEN ARGUMENT) This is the contemporary basis that you use to judge PVT and SCT and me as an amateur trader. ( OH YES AT LEAST YOU KNOW YOUR PLACE) So I am unbelievable and astonishing.( CORRECTION... YOU ARE DELUDED.. AND IN DENIAL ABOUT YOUR ABILITY) I use what the market offers as a standard and I judge myself to be doing a good job and I judge the conventional orthodoxy (NEW WORDS PLEASE) to be believably poor and I am astonished that it is so poor in performance. ( YOU ARE ASTONISHED THAT WHAT IS SO POOR.. YOUR ENGLISH IS SUB ENTRY INTO UNIVERSITY.. THATS WHAT WE SHOULD ALL BE AMAZED AT)

I feel ET has a lot of forums and their threads cover the topics of trading. The redundancy is there as well. (REDUNDANCY.... HMMM.. YOU MEAN IRRELEVANCE DONT YOU..!....?SUCH IS YOUR SELF BELIEF)

It is evident that there is a membership cycling going on. (OBVIOUS ISNT IT?) Some people come and go as they fail (OR SUCEED.. EVER THINK ABOUT THAT??....)
; others come and go as they see that a cycle of information exchange or learning has been completed.(VERBOSE..AGAIN)

(TO BE CONTINUED.......)
 
CONTINUED... (SORRY FOLKS.. BUT THIS IS ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED IN ORDER TO ALERT PEOPLE TO THE hERSHY PROBLEM IN MY OPINION.. OF COURSE)

In trading, one cannot always learn. (???????) That is most often precluded as a consequence of prior choices. ( THIS IS PURE FEACAL MATTER.. PEOPLE CHANGE.. EVEN AFTER THEY MAKE DECISIONS...HONEY PLEASE TAKE ME BACK.. ! OR DOESNT THAT RING ANY BELLS FOR YOU?)

) It is possible to learn to apply new support services to trading if the trading is successful. ( AGREED) Successful traders can continue to learn and unsuccessful traders cannot continue to learn. (rubbish, THATS LIKE SAYING BECAUSE i BLEW MY ACCOUNT ONCE i WILL NEVER EVER BE SUCCESSFUL.. DUDE.. ARE YOU TRYING TO BE A MORONIC FOOL ON PURPOSE?...

I have long been associated with the scientific community (i DOUBT THAT IN ANY MEANINGFUL DOCTORATE FULFILLING WAY)where often people cooperate to move forward the science of things. Certainly, where profits are concerned, cards are often held close and leapfrogging occurs. ET was different for me for the most part. (PEOPLE.. YEP I THINK I GET IT.. YOU STATE THE OBVIOUS AND CLOUD IT IN SOUND BITES

The fear, anxiety and anger, a consequence of the conventional orthodoxy,(YOU DEFINATELY HAVE A LIMITED VOCABAND IT DOES NOT) RULES. Sharing support, comfort and confidence is not on the table here in ET except in a few journals. ( AND YOU THINK I NEED COMFORT..?.. IN ORDER TO MAKE MYSELF A GOOD TRADER?...)

The PVT and SCT journals will be available in the future and many contributors have been very helpful towards getting the working issues on the table so they can be iteratively refined. (iF i HAD TIME TO PROFFER A THEORY BASED ON YES/NO TO THREE OR FOUR SIGNALS AND TALK AS INTELIGABLY AS YOU iM SURE iD CREATE BUZZ.. YOU ARE NOT A GURU, NOT A QUANT EVEN, i KNOW OF NOW ib INTERESTED IN YOU OR ANY HEDGE FUND LOOKING FOR YOUR SKILL.. YOU ARE A FAKE IN EVERY WAY AND I AM SURPRISED PEOPLE BELIEVE IN YOUR CRAP NONSENSE.. I WASNT LOOKING FOR YOU TO FALL INTO YOUR OWN HOLE BUT YOUR REPLY HERE HAS ANSWERED EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW... AND THE RUB IS THIS.. COULD I TRUST MY MONEY WITH YOUR PLANS AFTER WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN HERE TODAY?.. NO ID BE ASHMED TO EVEN ADMIT TO READING THEM... WHAT A JOKE.. WHAT A DISGRACE

It is really fun to make a lot more money than you need all the time. Deciding to do it, only takes a second. BE DO HAVE.

I think I have addressed the questions at this point. Thank you for reading my stuff over the years. [/B][/QUOTE]

i MAY BE BANNED NOW FOR SPEAKING MY MIND... BUT I DON'T NEED TO CONTRIBUTE HERE TO LEARN FROM OTHERS THAT POST.. BUT THIS NEEDS TO BE SAID..

JACK.. "YOU AIN'T ALL THAT".. IN FACT YOU ARE A CHARLATAN.. AND YOU ALMOST HAD ME FOOLED... YOU WOULDN'T LAST A WEEK IN AN IB, A MAJOR MBAE.G. HARVARD OR SIMILAR... YOUD BE LAUGHED OUT OF RESIDENCE... TRUST ME...

YOU SPEAK TOO MUCH RUBBISH

PAUL
 
Mr. Hershey,

SFI was very interesting and I thank you for that reference.

Your wry wit and provocative thoughts will be missed. Like Taleb you like to think outside the box and that's good. You are a survivor, but in the best sense, which is the one where you're not, in the least, impressed by the fact.

I agree with you and arpgoy that whiners will eventually self-destruct and I think the same can be said of pompous pissants and unknowing dyscognoscenti.

Rock on.

lj

PS: Clare Booth Luce responding to a question from the glib Mr. Cavett: "I don't know you from Adam, DICK (emphasis hers) , why should I call you by your first name?" I agree with CBL that one should not presume familiarity too easily.
 
Just imagine for a second that what Jack Hershey says were actually true. Make the mental effort. Just imagine there actually were a matrix through which the market could be seen at any moment and responded to perfectly. Then it would be completely irrelevant if you like the way Jack H. speaks or not, if you consider him cryptic, obtuse, verbose or whatever...because then, if you could make this your own, your trading would obviously be completely different from what you are doing now.

So, if you have decided for yourself that it is all hogwash, that's fine.... but it would make sense to spend a bit of effort to make sure....
 
Quote from arealpissedgoy:

Trading is a physiological endeavor where correct psychological competence is of paramount importance.

No, it is having an edge. Psychology means little compared to having a real outperformance edge. The market is like a casino. The longer you trade, the more sure they will take your money.

Trading is a negative sum game. The trading costs amd fact almost no one has an edge means almost everyone will lose. Only people like card counters or others with a possible edge can regularly profit. It is why they are banned. They actually make $$$

The reason why more than 90% will fail is because most are "whiners" and "destroyers".

No, it is because they have no edge and are clueless about proper trading practice. Even the depressed can win if they have a regular outperform edge

The universe will echo back unto you what you echo into it. It is a irrefutable physical law. The markets are a part reflection of the universe. What you put into it, is what it will echo back to you.

Unto you? O Lord? I guess from reading your stuff you are among the 90% who lose.
 
Quote from rcanfiel:

Quote from arealpissedgoy:

Trading is a physiological endeavor where correct psychological competence is of paramount importance.

No, it is having an edge. Psychology means little compared to having a real outperformance edge. The market is like a casino. The longer you trade, the more sure they will take your money.



You don't trade.

Whether correct Psychology is needed or not is moot in your case. You can go on all day on whatever tickles your jollies since you don't have a clue what it is you're talking about.
 
Quote from arealpissedgoy:

You don't trade.

Whether correct Psychology is needed or not is moot in your case. You can go on all day on whatever tickles your jollies since you don't have a clue what it is you're talking about.


pissed goy,

if you dont have a true edge, i agree psychology is needed. however, with an edge, a real one--- psych is not relevent--as a real edge can be automated removing any human intervention OR one can trade "like a computer" being totally confident in the edge removing the need for the psych aspect.

regards,
surf
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

pissed goy,

if you dont have a true edge, i agree psychology is needed. however, with an edge, a real one--- psych is not relevant--as a real edge can be automated removing any human intervention OR one can trade "like a computer" being totally confident in the edge removing the need for the psych aspect.

regards,
surf



The correct Psych is the key to *all* success. Not only in trading.

Ever seen how elite fighting forces are trained?

The purpose of the training is NOT to build more muscle or stamina, they already have that.

The purpose is to break down the individual psychologically. To strip him to the point of where he thinks he can no longer endure. Many break down and are rejected. However the ones who transcend the point of "no return" find that they suddenly have access to an infinite source of energy, mental and physical.

The point being?

When you start out in this business, you do not need an "edge". You need, the passion, the perseverance, the discipline, the ability to be kicked down again and again and still get up and fight. You need to be positive, see the possibilities instead of giving up.

The positive attitude and the new traders "psychological strength" will eventually pay off as he starts to begin to make sense of the price movement. The edge *WILL* come. It's not even a question of if. It *will* come, it is only a matter of time. To able to endure the burn for as long as it takes is the real key. *Not* some illusory "edge".
 
Quote from Vienna:

Just imagine for a second that what Jack Hershey says were actually true. Make the mental effort. Just imagine there actually were a matrix through which the market could be seen at any moment and responded to perfectly. Then it would be completely irrelevant if you like the way Jack H. speaks or not, if you consider him cryptic, obtuse, verbose or whatever...because then, if you could make this your own, your trading would obviously be completely different from what you are doing now.

So, if you have decided for yourself that it is all hogwash, that's fine.... but it would make sense to spend a bit of effort to make sure....

Yes.
 
Quote from Vienna:

Just imagine for a second that what Jack Hershey says were actually true. Make the mental effort. Just imagine there actually were a matrix through which the market could be seen at any moment and responded to perfectly. Then it would be completely irrelevant if you like the way Jack H. speaks or not, if you consider him cryptic, obtuse, verbose or whatever...because then, if you could make this your own, your trading would obviously be completely different from what you are doing now.

So, if you have decided for yourself that it is all hogwash, that's fine.... but it would make sense to spend a bit of effort to make sure....



Any interpretation of the market must take into account a wide brief of variables... those variables are too disparate and the interactions between them too complex to compute and produce an accurate predictor of price action.. or even response to price action across all variables like "time in trade" or the price Vs risk profile for a trade. We can approach a marginally significant model but this must be coupelled with money management rules to limit account loss or Margin call

such a thing is not just a simple puzzle and for 100years no one has or will produce an exact model of the markets allowing them an advantage that still wont have significant weaknesses..

As a result we must simplify the market into components which aim to group those variables so that each becomes more controllable within any model we choose to use to simulate that market ...yes?

The tools we have had for many years are still the best, namely

Price action
Volume
Market sentiment
Fundamental information
Open interest
The behavior behind closely linked market products
Market Psychology

This isnt rocket science, its mathematics.. but ultimately its about understanding people not oversimplified or simplified systems. thats why in my opinion lines of support and resistance really are the best tools avalble because others use them ... and we can see the result of this daily in an uncanny way that this price action bounces or pushes through it with gusto

as an example "A failure to transverse " FTT sounds alot like a resistance line to me... its already here.. and i dont need to clutter my graphs unnecessarily to reach the same effective conclusion really..


Paul
 
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