Why good platforms ignore mac?

volpunter · May 20, 2014

What a joke.

Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
and this http://stackoverflow.com/tags (most asked questions and answers: C#, we are talking about the professional programming website with the most page views in the world)

and then we can continue talking about of how little importance Windows and .Net has become. About half the world's websites are written using(ASP.NET, Silverlight, or other MS stacks), moron!!!

Facts speak louder than someone with a bashful big mouth full of conjecture. Present your supporting facts then you can be taken serious

vicirek said:
You are a dinosaur, look around for your own good, the World has changed, Really!

The trend is cross-platform lightweight frameworks and standards in programming not owned by any commercial giant.

.Net is slowly becoming a liability for Windows because it is too big and cannot be used across devices.

rieszrep · May 20, 2014

I'm out of here. No use debating fundamentals with someone who takes personal affront easily.

vicirek · May 20, 2014

volpunter said:
What a joke.

Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
and this http://stackoverflow.com/tags (most asked questions and answers: C#, we are talking about the professional programming website with the most page views in the world)

and then we can continue talking about of how little importance Windows and .Net has become. About half the world's websites are written using(ASP.NET, Silverlight, or other MS stacks), moron!!!

Facts speak louder than someone with a bashful big mouth full of conjecture. Present your supporting facts then you can be taken serious

I am talking about future and you are talking about history.

You can program in Silverlight but it will not work on all devices because it is "expensive" plug in from the point of view system resources utilization especially for mobile. ASP is great but also too big and not as nimble as smaller scalable frameworks and it is no wonder that MS is offering node.js among others as part of back end deployment on their servers.

Similarly .Net has big system footprint with additional layer of managed code not particularly suited for multi-device deployment and also getting in the way of massive parallelizm that does not work well with garbage collectors and managed code. It will be probably re-designed hopefully with native compilation and UI that will compile natively along the lines of c++/cx but at this point it is pure speculation.

Everywhere you check Windows is 35% and sales may reflect sale of licenses to dealers and not necessarily installs.

I program .Net and absolutely like it but I am not emotionally attached to it to the point that I would throw obscenities at any one who differs in opinion.

However, I think that if the Microsoft will keep shooting themselves in the foot then it is time to rethink if it is worth relying on Microsoft stack at all and many others already dumped it completely.

MadSpeculator · May 20, 2014

rieszrep said:
It has nothing much to do with Steve Jobs but rather NeXT's backend technology .

I have to agree with everything you said in your post except for the line quoted above. Remember Jobs founded NeXT Inc. If you ever get a chance to talk with NeXT engineers about their time at NeXT, you will really understand Jobs' influence on NexTSTEP. That man was brilliant!

volpunter · May 21, 2014

you never debated facts, you bash an IDE and when being asked you cannot name a single contender that comes even close. And now you disappear. Typical attitude of someone who injects himself into a debate without much factual backup. Do not let the door hit you on the way out.

rieszrep said:
I'm out of here. No use debating fundamentals with someone who takes personal affront easily.

volpunter · May 21, 2014

you again got the topic wrong, in the same way as you did not comprehend the topic in the "Operating System Choice" thread. The topic here is about the status quo not what you think the future turns out. The current situation is that the market share of Macs is so incredibly small that most developers do not spend the effort and money to develop a version for MacOS, its just that simple. And I presented WITH FACTS the status quo, which is that MS's products such as .Net in all its variations are having a huge impact on installed software applications, web sites, and server side software, RIGHT NOW. It does not matter what you think the future will hold, this is not what the topic is about. Nor is the topic about "trends" such as you inferred with your comment ".Net is slowly becoming a liability for Windows because it is too big and cannot be used across devices."

I am not a MS proponent, but I cannot stand those who present ideas that are clearly contradicted by facts. You claimed .Net is not relevant anymore when half the websites TODAY are either programmed or rendered using MS products. And I backed up my statements with hard facts from independent research agencies and portals.

Macs represent such small market share and developers would be stupid to waste their resources on a product that has so little appreciation and acceptance by a wide user base.

vicirek said:
I am talking about future and you are talking about history.

You can program in Silverlight but it will not work on all devices because it is "expensive" plug in from the point of view system resources utilization especially for mobile. ASP is great but also too big and not as nimble as smaller scalable frameworks and it is no wonder that MS is offering node.js among others as part of back end deployment on their servers.

Similarly .Net has big system footprint with additional layer of managed code not particularly suited for multi-device deployment and also getting in the way of massive parallelizm that does not work well with garbage collectors and managed code. It will be probably re-designed hopefully with native compilation and UI that will compile natively along the lines of c++/cx but at this point it is pure speculation.

Everywhere you check Windows is 35% and sales may reflect sale of licenses to dealers and not necessarily installs.

I program .Net and absolutely like it but I am not emotionally attached to it to the point that I would throw obscenities at any one who differs in opinion.

However, I think that if the Microsoft will keep shooting themselves in the foot then it is time to rethink if it is worth relying on Microsoft stack at all and many others already dumped it completely.

vicirek · May 21, 2014

volpunter said:
you again got the topic wrong, in the same way as you did not comprehend the topic in the "Operating System Choice" thread. The topic here is about the status quo not what you think the future turns out. The current situation is that the market share of Macs is so incredibly small that most developers do not spend the effort and money to develop a version for MacOS, its just that simple. And I presented WITH FACTS the status quo, which is that MS's products such as .Net in all its variations are having a huge impact on installed software applications, web sites, and server side software, RIGHT NOW. It does not matter what you think the future will hold, this is not what the topic is about. Nor is the topic about "trends" such as you inferred with your comment ".Net is slowly becoming a liability for Windows because it is too big and cannot be used across devices."

I am not a MS proponent, but I cannot stand those who present ideas that are clearly contradicted by facts. You claimed .Net is not relevant anymore when half the websites TODAY are either programmed or rendered using MS products. And I backed up my statements with hard facts from independent research agencies and portals.

Macs represent such small market share and developers would be stupid to waste their resources on a product that has so little appreciation and acceptance by a wide user base.

Small share of Macs is not the current situation because it is growing and in mobile and tablets surpasses Windows and this is prompting changes in software offerings. Small share is historical statement which was part of the problem but also back end was not developed on Macs and the front end followed this trend.

.Net gained traction just few years back after long period of mistrust by developers burned by fast changing incompatible target frameworks and erratic changes in programming model. Before it was difficult to find API in .Net. Growing usage by end customers and number of .Net developers finally made a difference but .Net is very often afterthought and usually is build by using blueprint of existing Java or C++ application just to broaden software offerings.

No, 50% of web pages are not created using Microsoft technologies nor .Net nor Microsoft have huge impact on server side, front and back end web but definitely gained popularity in client applications but still not being able gain dominance over vendor independent software.

Check your facts or ask professional for help.

Jack_Larkin · May 21, 2014

volpunter said:
....You claimed .Net is not relevant anymore when half the websites TODAY are either programmed or rendered using MS products....

Please don't make a "the FACTS" argument with facts that don't hold up:

Microsoft 11.08%
(This not only covers ASP.Net, ASP, and regular .Net, but even sites that are just running on IIS with nothing special driving them.)

Code:

Developer	March 2014	Percent	April 2014	Percent	Change
Apache	93,759,928	52.18%	95,512,314	52.44%	0.26
nginx	25,497,586	14.19%	25,900,525	14.22%	0.03
Microsoft	20,436,280	11.37%	20,175,151	[B]11.08%[/B]	-0.30
Google	14,967,579	8.33%	14,829,924	8.14%	-0.19

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2014/04/02/april-2014-web-server-survey.html

The only thing MS comes close to running "HALF" of, is parked domains... (sites that don't do shit all, just point to a single static file or don't respond at all but are at least registered and connect to some name server somewhere,) and that's only at 33% marketshare (same source link as above.)

And, that's only a recent trend, historically MS took the piss on such shit work as well. Sad when your only growth is seen in serving domain squatters and not doing anything meaningful.

But please, do post your "sources" that might know better than Netcraft. I'd love a good laugh to finish off my awesome day in the markets... (today was a really good day for me.)

volpunter · May 21, 2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

By installed OS:
Windows Servers : 32.6%
Linux : 38.6%

By physical Hardware Unit sales:
Windows Servers: 50.3%
Linux: 28%
Unix : 11.1%

The differential most likely comes from the fact that a lot of Hardware servers that run Linux virtualize the hell out of the hardware and split into uncountable subs running Linux OS. So maybe there goes your argument that Linux is more scalable, LOL. But let the facts speak for themselves!!! And they are here in hard print and backed up by one of the most independent consulting and research firms in this space

Jack_Larkin said:
Please don't make a "the FACTS" argument with facts that don't hold up:

Microsoft 11.08%
(This not only covers ASP.Net, ASP, and regular .Net, but even sites that are just running on IIS with nothing special driving them.)

Code:

Developer March 2014 Percent April 2014 Percent Change Apache 93,759,928 52.18% 95,512,314 52.44% 0.26 nginx 25,497,586 14.19% 25,900,525 14.22% 0.03 Microsoft 20,436,280 11.37% 20,175,151 [B]11.08%[/B] -0.30 Google 14,967,579 8.33% 14,829,924 8.14% -0.19

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2014/04/02/april-2014-web-server-survey.html

The only thing MS comes close to running "HALF" of, is parked domains... (sites that don't do shit all, just point to a single static file or don't respond at all but are at least registered and connect to some name server somewhere,) and that's only at 33% marketshare (same source link as above.)

And, that's only a recent trend, historically MS took the piss on such shit work as well. Sad when your only growth is seen in serving domain squatters and not doing anything meaningful.

But please, do post your "sources" that might know better than Netcraft. I'd love a good laugh to finish off my awesome day in the markets... (today was a really good day for me.)

Jack_Larkin · May 21, 2014

1) 32.6% is comparable to the ~33% I quoted for total servers doing web services before removing hosts that are just dead ends for domain squatters.
2) 32.6% is not "half". And as stated in my previous post, once you drill down to sites that actually provide a service or do something, MS drops to ~12%
3) Did you bother to check up on the source I linked? Did you see how MS having a high market share of non-active domains becomes a bit of a joke when you compare it to the data of active domains?
4) 50% of total server units sold has ZERO impact or relation to the claim you made about what OS is running the web. In fact, it's a general number, not a web server specific number. Since it isn't related, I will now disregard it.

volpunter said:
So maybe there goes your argument that Linux is more scalable, LOL.

Who's argument? What are you talking about? You realize I'm not the same person you were exchanging posts with earlier in this thread, right? Did you not read my user name the same way you didn't read the context of your own "source"?