Why Fat is the Preferred Fuel for Human Metabolism

[macho grande]

Quote from NoDoji:

MG, I make no assumptions; I simply studied the scientific evidence following my cancer diagnosis and have continued to study it ever since (I'm a nutritional mentor for clients of a certified nutritionist).

The overwhelming evidence points to a whole-foods plant based diet with 15% or less calories from fat as a powerful method of preventing, arresting and frequently reversing many chronic illnesses linked to diets high in saturated fats and refined/highly processed foods.

I never once intimated that meat/fish/eggs/milk per se is a cause of cancer, diabetes.

VEGAN is a lifestyle. I'm not "vegan", though I have to use that term with people because if you say "I'm vegetarian", most people assume you eat eggs, dairy, and even chicken and fish.

I own a leather motorcycle jacket, leather boots, leather belts, silk clothing (calm down, boys...). I even sometimes eat food with honey in it (gasp!).

A plants-only diet is VEGETARIAN.

"Lacto vegetarian", "lacto-ovo" vegetarian, lacto-ovo-chicko-fisho vegetarian", are all misnomers. They're terms invented to help people feel good about not eating red meat.

Well, in fact, red meat is the least toxic factory farmed meat you can eat, not that it's healthy.

Meat/fish are not necessary for a nutritionally complete diet and a plant-only provides complete protein at the levels needed for good health as long as you're eating from each of the food groups daily (grains, legumes, fruits and vegetables)

The "complete" protein concept is a myth, dismissed years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_combining

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/vsk/protein_myth.html

(As an aside, at the time in their lives when humans require more protein than at any other time (early infancy), the ideal food (breast milk) contains less than 7% calories from protein.)

As for "healthful benefits of meat and fish and low-fat dairy (in proper amounts)" that can't be obtained from a plants-only diet, provide evidence of this. Please, no studies funded, designed by, or conducted by those related to food/pharmaceutical industries.

(P.S. How you know I don't eat dirt?)

Ok, you are a strict vegetarian that eats no animal products. IOW, a dietary vegan. So much for mincing words.

You've personally excluded all animal products from your diet despite admitting that prudent consumption is not harmful, and you have no evidence that it is.

All the AA's are contained in most plants but some are very limited in amount, and to the extent of this deficiency the protein is useful rather than burned off as excess energy. Adding a little animal protein complements the plant and enhances the protein quality of the meal making it more physiologically useful. In this way plants are an "incomplete" protein source.

As for your reference to infant G&D, the nutritional needs of the infant has no bearing on those same needs in an adult. (as you've so often reminded us about unnecessary adult dairy consumption)

What is a "nutritional mentor"? have you had any formal training?

I'm still waiting for your (scientific) evidence that unwashed vegetables provide the DRI (daily recommended amount) of B12 -2.4mcg daily. I'm still waiting for your evidence that meat/fish/dairy added to one's diet is harmful when saturated fat and calories are controlled for.

The two longest lived populations -the Okinawans and Mediterranean - both include animal products daily.

You have given no scientific evidence for their complete exclusion.

 

[kgharris]

Quote from NoDoji:

MG, I make no assumptions; I simply studied the scientific evidence following my cancer diagnosis and have continued to study it ever since (I'm a nutritional mentor for clients of a certified nutritionist).

The overwhelming evidence points to a whole-foods plant based diet with 15% or less calories from fat as a powerful method of preventing, arresting and frequently reversing many chronic illnesses linked to diets high in saturated fats and refined/highly processed foods.

I never once intimated that meat/fish/eggs/milk per se is a cause of cancer, diabetes.

VEGAN is a lifestyle. I'm not "vegan", though I have to use that term with people because if you say "I'm vegetarian", most people assume you eat eggs, dairy, and even chicken and fish.

I own a leather motorcycle jacket, leather boots, leather belts, silk clothing (calm down, boys...). I even sometimes eat food with honey in it (gasp!).

A plants-only diet is VEGETARIAN.

"Lacto vegetarian", "lacto-ovo" vegetarian, lacto-ovo-chicko-fisho vegetarian", are all misnomers. They're terms invented to help people feel good about not eating red meat.

Well, in fact, red meat is the least toxic factory farmed meat you can eat, not that it's healthy.

Meat/fish are not necessary for a nutritionally complete diet and a plant-only provides complete protein at the levels needed for good health as long as you're eating from each of the food groups daily (grains, legumes, fruits and vegetables)

The "complete" protein concept is a myth, dismissed years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_combining

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/vsk/protein_myth.html

(As an aside, at the time in their lives when humans require more protein than at any other time (early infancy), the ideal food (breast milk) contains less than 7% calories from protein.)

As for "healthful benefits of meat and fish and low-fat dairy (in proper amounts)" that can't be obtained from a plants-only diet, provide evidence of this. Please, no studies funded, designed by, or conducted by those related to food/pharmaceutical industries.

(P.S. How you know I don't eat dirt?)

DT-waw, yes, fats are needed, but no more than 10% of calories need to come from fat and there is ample fat in corn, beans, seeds, grains, berries, and vegetables, to fill those needs.

Vinc, Dr. McDougall's site provides a good daily meal plan that's similar to what I eat:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/free_5a.html

A couple powerful reads with many recipes included are:

Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease

The Engine 2 Diet

Atticus, it was BC, stage 2 ductal infiltrating, poorly-differentiated, ER positive. I got the hard-sell on chemo from every angle, but stood my ground against it after reading Ruth Heidrich's story while awaiting my biopsy results:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/stars/star07_ruth-heidrich.html

Many years ago I had a tiny cyst that was checked with a mammogram and found to be nothing more than a tiny cyst. It remained as such for years.

The cancer grew at the location of the cyst during a period of time following a switch to a high protein/high fat/low carb diet (Atkins/Sears).

When I read The China Study about 7 months after I went plant-based, it was a real eye opener and it served as an evidence-based explanation for why the cancer grew so rapidly in just a few years following a diet that Campbell had demonstrated in the lab to turn on tumor promotion like a light switch.

NoDoji, I learn something new every day (complete protein myth). I will still eat my rice and beans together, because that is how I like to eat! But it is good to know.

I second "The Engine 2 Diet" - this book really took my cooking and eating to the next level. Unbelievably great recipes.

 

[macho grande]

Quote from kgharris:

NoDoji, I learn something new every day (complete protein myth). I will still eat my rice and beans together, because that is how I like to eat! But it is good to know.

.

Funny, you haven't even had time to read it let alone evaluate the evidence yet but you're convinced. LOL

 

[NoDoji]

MG, you bring a smile to my face every time I read your posts

BTW, I sent you a PM recently regarding 6E chat.

Here's a pretty informative article about complex carbs as an optimal energy source. Looks like it's a wise idea to eat a bowl of barley before trading your wheat, corn and soybeans

 

[macho grande]

Quote from NoDoji:

MG, you bring a smile to my face every time I read your posts

BTW, I sent you a PM recently regarding 6E chat.

Here's a pretty informative article about complex carbs as an optimal energy source. Looks like it's a wise idea to eat a bowl of barley before trading your wheat, corn and soybeans [/QUOTE

I'd rather have a responsive dialogue with you where we toss around real science than another of your "informative" articles/websites/gurus. wikipedia don't cut it honey.

Answer the questions, that be a good start. Or do you just want to keep spinning?

Start by explaining why you personally have eliminated all animal products from your diet despite the fact they do no harm in controlled amount, you've admitted as such. And despite the fact that all long-lived pops partake of animal protein. And despite the fact that our evolutionary history involves consumption of animals for nutrition. For what purpose and on what rational basis do you exclude them?

Your diet, The VEGAN diet is the experimental and untested diet here. The burden of proof is on YOU, the vegan!

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from macho grande:

Start by explaining why you personally have eliminated all animal products from your diet despite the fact they do no harm in controlled amount, you've admitted as such. For what purpose and on what rational basis do you exclude them?

I already addressed this. Do you only read small pieces of what people post?

Quote from NoDoji:

Who ever stated that small amounts of lean meat and fish in a whole foods diet results in greater morbidity and mortality?

The problem is the Standard American Diet that we've been exposed to (and probably consumed) most of our lives has damaged our health. To reverse the damage, a very strict cleansing diet is required.

The only diet that's been proven in several studies (not funded by food industries) to reverse heart disease and type 2 diabetes, and prevent/reverse progression of cancer is a whole foods plant-based diet with calories from fat kept below 15% (10% being ideal).

I had cancer, so I'm very strict in my diet. If I had heart disease or type 2 diabetes, I'd be just as strict.

If you have no heart disease, diabetes, cancer or other chronic lifestyle-induced diseases, then you can eat small amounts of meats/fish (though if I did, I'd only eat wild cold water fish and free range meats ordered in advance from a small organic farm).

But if you've eaten significant quantities of refined sugars, refined flour, fried foods, factory farmed meats, fish high on the food chain, and dairy products for more than a decade of your life, you have internal damage that needs to be reversed for optimal health, and reversal is not as easy as prevention (hence the saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."). Moderation won't do it.

 

[macho grande]

Quote from NoDoji:

I already addressed this. Do you only read small pieces of what people post?

Quote from NoDoji:

Who ever stated that small amounts of lean meat and fish in a whole foods diet results in greater morbidity and mortality?

Then why do you exclude them?

 

[macho grande]

Do you exclude them because you don't really believe your own rhetoric? I believe you actually think animal food is harmful in any amount, but won't admit it. Certainly can't support it with science (or won't )

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from macho grande:

Do you exclude them because you don't really believe your own rhetoric? I believe you actually think animal food is harmful in any amount, but won't admit it. Certainly can't support it with science (or won't )

A few of the reasons I exclude animal foods from my diet are a) they provide no nutrients I'm not getting from plant foods, b) they're contain more than 15% calories from fat, c) they concentrate toxins from their contaminated environment and the contaminated feed they live on, d) animal protein even in small amounts increases tumor promotion in vitro and in vivo, e) all my chronic health problems disappeared within the first month of the diet, f) I've had more sustained energy than ever eating this way, and g) the practices of big agribusiness and factory farming pollute the environment and waste resources.

For anyone interested in the results of studies and meta-analyses of studies that are NOT funded/designed by for-profit industries, here is Michael Greger, M.D.'s entire book on-line discussing the problems with the high protein/high fat diets and the hype surrounding them:

http://www.atkinsexposed.org

In this book, I believe I found an explanation for some of the specious arguments presented on this thread, and the apparent inability for those putting forth those arguments to remember what was already posted and addressed here:

Experts have voiced a longstanding concern that ketosis might fog up people's thinking, but it wasn't formally tested until 1995. As reported in the International Journal of Obesity article "Cognitive Effects of Ketogenic Weight-Reducing Diets," researchers randomized people to either a ketogenic or a nonketogenic weight loss diet. Although both groups lost the same amount of weight, those on the ketogenic diet suffered a significant drop in cognitive performance.

After one week in ketosis, higher order mental processing and mental flexibility significantly worsened into what the researcher called a "modest neuropsychological impairment."

I also found an explanation for my development of debilitating gout while still in my 30's after less than a year of high protein/high fat eating:

There is also concern that uric acid levels on a meat-centered diet might be forced so high that it could start crystallizing in one's joints, triggering gout, an excruciating arthritic condition.

And finally, of course, the cancer connection:

Studies at Harvard and elsewhere involving tens of thousands of women and men have shown that regular meat consumption may increase colon cancer risk as much as 300 percent. As one Harvard School of Public health researcher noted, because of the meat content, two years on the Atkins Diet "could initiate a cancer. It could show up as a polyp in 7 years and as colon cancer in ten." Another Harvard study showed that women with the highest intake of animal fat seem to have over a 75% greater risk of developing breast cancer.

Interestingly, the six of my friends who developed cancer in the years surrounding my own cancer development, also adhered to the high protein/high fat diet (either Atkins, Sears, or Eades) during the years of mass carbophobia surrounding the publication of these fad diet books, and my own primary care physician who followed and promoted the Atkins diet during those same years, developed multiple skin cancers a few years later.

 

[ammo]

Quote from macho grande:

wow get your nose out of her crack.

her vegan philosophy is wrong and unsupported by science. she makes assumptions and jumps to conclusions on little evidence.

beyond that she's right

pretty obvious who's got their head up their crack,but keep posting ,everytime you do,doj gives us more info,one of the most informative threads ever on ET,so despite yourself,you are making it all possible