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Why everything you've been told about evolution is wrong
- Thread starter jficquette
- Start date
I'm guessing you will find more than two different definitions...
theory noun
Click to hear the UK pronunciation of this wordClick to hear the US pronunciation of this word/ˈθɪə.ri//ˈθɪr.i/ n [C or U]
a formal statement of the rules on which a subject of study is based or of ideas which are suggested to explain a fact or event or, more generally, an opinion or explanation
theory noun
Click to hear the UK pronunciation of this wordClick to hear the US pronunciation of this word/ˈθɪə.ri//ˈθɪr.i/ n [C or U]
a formal statement of the rules on which a subject of study is based or of ideas which are suggested to explain a fact or event or, more generally, an opinion or explanation
Quote from Ricter:
There are two different definitions of "theory" in use in this discussion.
Quote from OPTIONAL777:
I'm guessing you will find more than two different definitions...
theory noun
Click to hear the UK pronunciation of this wordClick to hear the US pronunciation of this word/ˈθɪə.ri//ˈθɪr.i/ n [C or U]
a formal statement of the rules on which a subject of study is based or of ideas which are suggested to explain a fact or event or, more generally, an opinion or explanation
I understand what you are trying to say by your underlining, but it doesn't actually help imho. A fact, when expressed, is itself only a symbolic representation of some deeper truth/experience, thus it cannot be said to be more true than theory as meant by science. We could keep spiraling down, unto madness, with this, but that is not necessary. For utilitarian purposes, the theory of evolution is "fact enough", in that it's predictive power serves that purpose. No, it doesn't answer other human needs, like our spiritual hunger, but who's asking it to? The tool is not designed for that job. I maintain that one can simultaneously believe in God, and evolution.
"Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.
Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms."
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms."
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
A fact, when expressed, is itself only a symbolic representation of some deeper truth/experience.
Not really that complicated really. Facts are simply. Drawing conclusions from simple facts to accurately predict the future is a different matter.
Scientists can't predict when the next species change is going to happen by looking to the past, they can't produce a decent set of transition fossil remains, they can't show that changes in the smallest organisms lead to changes in mammals will lead to a new species of mammals.
Evolutionary theory is just a possible explanation.
Without knowing why something happens, there really is not a need for the mumbo jumbo of "it happens because of some mutation" and then survival, and then that genetic change led to more genetic changes, etc.
It really is a fantasy story, which if people want to believe in and have faith in is fine...just don't call it fact and teach it to children as a fact of life...
Can one believe in God and evolutionary theory? Of course. Why not? God plans the changes, nature carries out the process of evolution according to the plan...no conflict there at all that I can see, but then I am not a Christian...
Not really that complicated really. Facts are simply. Drawing conclusions from simple facts to accurately predict the future is a different matter.
Scientists can't predict when the next species change is going to happen by looking to the past, they can't produce a decent set of transition fossil remains, they can't show that changes in the smallest organisms lead to changes in mammals will lead to a new species of mammals.
Evolutionary theory is just a possible explanation.
Without knowing why something happens, there really is not a need for the mumbo jumbo of "it happens because of some mutation" and then survival, and then that genetic change led to more genetic changes, etc.
It really is a fantasy story, which if people want to believe in and have faith in is fine...just don't call it fact and teach it to children as a fact of life...
Can one believe in God and evolutionary theory? Of course. Why not? God plans the changes, nature carries out the process of evolution according to the plan...no conflict there at all that I can see, but then I am not a Christian...
Quote from Ricter:
I understand what you are trying to say by your underlining, but it doesn't actually help imho. A fact, when expressed, is itself only a symbolic representation of some deeper truth/experience, thus it cannot be said to be more true than theory as meant by science. We could keep spiraling down, unto madness, with this, but that is not necessary. For utilitarian purposes, the theory of evolution is "fact enough", in that it's predictive power serves that purpose. No, it doesn't answer other human needs, like our spiritual hunger, but who's asking it to? The tool is not designed for that job. I maintain that one can simultaneously believe in God, and evolution.
"And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
Not a fact, now is it? Just an idea, a theory, a possibility, one possible explanation of what could have happened right?
Could it not have been planned, and not an arbitrary change?
Just as the design of automobiles is evolutionary, i.e. changing over time into different designs...why is it not possible that the the change in life is also by a similar (in analogy only) process?
However, we are talking about life, organic stuff, which has a nature to change and adapt to the environment...where machines do not...where inorganic materials do not.
Does it matter if God did it, or if it happened by pure chance?
You tell me...would it matter if God did it?
Tell me that if God did it, that it would not shape the lives of people and their belief systems, just as much as people who believe God didn't do it has shaped their lives and belief systems...
Not a fact, now is it? Just an idea, a theory, a possibility, one possible explanation of what could have happened right?
Could it not have been planned, and not an arbitrary change?
Just as the design of automobiles is evolutionary, i.e. changing over time into different designs...why is it not possible that the the change in life is also by a similar (in analogy only) process?
However, we are talking about life, organic stuff, which has a nature to change and adapt to the environment...where machines do not...where inorganic materials do not.
Does it matter if God did it, or if it happened by pure chance?
You tell me...would it matter if God did it?
Tell me that if God did it, that it would not shape the lives of people and their belief systems, just as much as people who believe God didn't do it has shaped their lives and belief systems...
Quote from trendlover:
"Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.
Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms."
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
Quote from the link:
"Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
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Then optinonal777 say this about the article quote:
from OPTIONAL777:[/i]
"Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then optinonal777 say this about the article quote:
from OPTIONAL777:[/i]
Quote
"Not a fact, now is it? Just an idea, a theory, a possibility, one possible explanation of what could have happened right?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is the fact. The article is saying (human evolution is the fact)
Then scientists take the (facts) to put into the theory by Darwin.
Then they say (human evolution IS the fact), but ask HOW (the fact) human evolves is just like Darwin say, or is something not discovered yet about (how{this fact} of the human evolution) happens.
So maybe Darwin did not see all the picture how it happen. But human evolution is fact.
The author of the article has an opinion that he is expressing, and you see that as a fact?
Okay, but opinion of a scientist or a layperson is not a fact...
Name the time and place the human actually evolved into a human from a non human, from a different species, or please predict when that is going to happen in the future...
Geologists have the evidence of rock formation, and they make guesses as to what was going on at the time...but still it is just a guess...
Biological evolution of higher species is just a guess, certainly not a fact in evidence...
By the way, did Darwin (or any Darwinist that followed) ever produce a fossil record that explained the different species in Galapagos Island?
No, not even close...he had no real idea how those species got there, and why others didn't...so he made a wild guess based on supposition and limited fact...and the whole world bought into it simply because they were comparing his ideas to the fundamentalist Christians who took the King James version of the Bible literally?
Please, put this whole thing in context...
Okay, but opinion of a scientist or a layperson is not a fact...
Name the time and place the human actually evolved into a human from a non human, from a different species, or please predict when that is going to happen in the future...
Geologists have the evidence of rock formation, and they make guesses as to what was going on at the time...but still it is just a guess...
Biological evolution of higher species is just a guess, certainly not a fact in evidence...
By the way, did Darwin (or any Darwinist that followed) ever produce a fossil record that explained the different species in Galapagos Island?
No, not even close...he had no real idea how those species got there, and why others didn't...so he made a wild guess based on supposition and limited fact...and the whole world bought into it simply because they were comparing his ideas to the fundamentalist Christians who took the King James version of the Bible literally?
Please, put this whole thing in context...
Quote from trendlover:
Quote from the link:
"Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then optinonal777 say this about the article quote:
from OPTIONAL777:[/i]Quote
"Not a fact, now is it? Just an idea, a theory, a possibility, one possible explanation of what could have happened right?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is the fact. The article is saying (human evolution is the fact)
Then scientists take the (facts) to put into the theory by Darwin.
Then they say (human evolution IS the fact), but ask HOW (the fact) human evolves is just like Darwin say, or is something not discovered yet about (how{this fact} of the human evolution) happens.
So maybe Darwin did not see all the picture how it happen. But human evolution is fact.
Quote from OPTIONAL777:
Biological evolution of higher species is just a guess, certainly not a fact in evidence...
The evolution of biological organisms from changes in their genetic material, is fact in evidence.
No matter how much you insist it isnât wonât change the Evolution fact
Evolution is a fact
Gravity is a fact.
God isn't.
That simple.
Evolution is a not a fact, it is a theory. A guess of what is causing and affecting life.
Gravity is a guess of some unknown force, not a fact of direct observation. Something is going on, but is it a force that interacts on one body, or one body influencing another body. A consequence of physical relationships, not a force that would exist on its own. What creates gravity? Scientists don't have a clue. They have never measured gravity as a force, as it is not measurable. All they can do it measure movement of mass, and guess that something called "gravity" is there. There are photons, electrons, neutrons, atoms, plenty of sub atomic particles...but are there gravitrons (sp)? Nope. Forces and fields are just mental constructs not facts. The ideas give one possible explanation, but certainly there are other logical possibilities.
Gravity is the force of attraction...ohhhh, how scientifically explained. Things attract, so there must be some force, right?
LOL!!! No one has ever seen gravity, measured it, observed it in any way...but we call this unknown "force" gravity.
Too funny. Damn if they have ruled out any other possible explanation. A force suggest something independent to the bodies involved, but if there are no bodies can we measure gravity? Do bodies create gravity, or is gravity there just waiting to attract objects? If it is a force that is independent of the bodies, truly independent, then we should be able to measure it. We can't. This "force" magically appears with the bodies, so is it a force, or just the interaction of bodies and no external force at all? Science truly doesn't know...
Never claimed God was a fact, but will claim that there is no fact of non God.
That simple.
Gravity is a guess of some unknown force, not a fact of direct observation. Something is going on, but is it a force that interacts on one body, or one body influencing another body. A consequence of physical relationships, not a force that would exist on its own. What creates gravity? Scientists don't have a clue. They have never measured gravity as a force, as it is not measurable. All they can do it measure movement of mass, and guess that something called "gravity" is there. There are photons, electrons, neutrons, atoms, plenty of sub atomic particles...but are there gravitrons (sp)? Nope. Forces and fields are just mental constructs not facts. The ideas give one possible explanation, but certainly there are other logical possibilities.
Gravity is the force of attraction...ohhhh, how scientifically explained. Things attract, so there must be some force, right?
LOL!!! No one has ever seen gravity, measured it, observed it in any way...but we call this unknown "force" gravity.
Too funny. Damn if they have ruled out any other possible explanation. A force suggest something independent to the bodies involved, but if there are no bodies can we measure gravity? Do bodies create gravity, or is gravity there just waiting to attract objects? If it is a force that is independent of the bodies, truly independent, then we should be able to measure it. We can't. This "force" magically appears with the bodies, so is it a force, or just the interaction of bodies and no external force at all? Science truly doesn't know...
Never claimed God was a fact, but will claim that there is no fact of non God.
That simple.
Quote from stu:
The evolution of biological organisms from changes in their genetic material, is fact in evidence.
No matter how much you insist it isnât wonât change the Evolution fact
Evolution is a fact
Gravity is a fact.
God isn't.
That simple.