Why everything you've been told about evolution is wrong

[OPTIONAL777]

Pretty silly...

That is your argument?

Moral decay is due to complicated factors?

Hardly...

Moral decay occurs when there is insufficient fear of the consequences of immoral behavior, and scientific atheism does not hold that there are consequences to sin...consequences that keep God fearing people behaving in a greater moral sphere.

Is it out of fear of punishment that people generally behave in a more moral fashion?

Sure, but so is looking both ways before crossing the street done out of fear...

Take away the fear of consequences, living only for today coupled with the dumbing down of America, and what we have is a sinking ship riding on the seas of rising tides of atheistic science...

This decline in genuinely moral behavior includes the in name only Christians who don't actually follow the words of Jesus Christ and the atheistic jews who ignore the law of Moses as they engage in sinful behavior just as much as the atheistic science followers...

Quote from NeoRio1:

Almost all historians consider the moral decay argument to be too simplistic.

Constantine legalized Christianity in the fourth century and the empire fell in the fifth century... Besides that there was overexpansion and inflation, secret Germanic mercenaries in Roman legions, entrustment in barbarian mercenaries and an economy that depended on the looting of other territories.

What legitimate firms/organizations have come out with evidence that atheism has lead to an increase in the seven deadly sins?

What legitimate firms/organizations have come out with evidence that atheists are more hedonistic than theists?

 

[OPTIONAL777]

The Netherlands and Denmark are not America, are they?

Yes, there is much more corruption today in nearly every institution than every before.

Why is that?

A couple of reasons. The rise of atheistic theism, and the lack of punishment for those who do sin.

Gradually over time, as the mores of real Christianity and Judaism were replaced with atheistic secularism, it became okay to engage in immoral behaviors, it became okay to get a divorce, it became okay to cheat on your taxes, it became okay not to keep your word, it became okay to lie, etc. It became okay to be greedy, it became okay to not enforce the laws of immigration, it became okay to flaunt excess, etc.

I am not preaching some specific moral code, but it is obvious that the average American is less moral than 50 years ago.

America is not as safe a place as it used to be 50 years ago. 50 years ago people felt relatively safe to hitchhike across America, to allow their kids to walk home from school, etc.

Are crime rates really down if we factor in the crime that goes unpunished? Think of all the white collar crime, think of the unreported crime...

Really, society has degraded dramatically in the past 50 years on the whole.

This is due to a fear of the consequences of behavior that was previously considered sinful and punishable, but is now considered okay...

Look, you really think in the 60's that Tiger Woods if caught in his behaviors would be given a chance to come back after what he has done?

You think in the 60's a president who lied about his behavior with an intern would skate?

You think that the levels of excess and greed would be glorified the way they are now?

This change in mores is due to the decline in the moral values of previous generations, and the rise of atheistic science pushers who claim men are from monkeys, that there is no such thing as sin, that it is okay to do your own thing without concern for your fellow man, etc.

The rise of the "me generation."

http://books.google.com/books?id=tV...resnum=4&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Just look at the number of people on anti depressants, etc.

Life is better now than 50 years ago?

By what measure? By being able to keep people alive through science longer than nature intended?

America has degraded dramatically in just two generations...and at the forefront is atheistic science...

By the way, I am not talking about the false religiosity we see in America today, I am talking about good-hearted, God fearing American people who have devolved into a greedy, self absorbed hedonistic society that mirrors Rome as they began to decline from the initial virtues of the great Greek philosophers who influence Roman society...

p.s. Norway and Denmark have a social conscience, atheistic science and destruction of what is in the best interest of society as a consequence of minimizing moral behavior (which was founded in religious belief and fear of consequence of sin) and emphasizing materialism over a genuine spiritual life have eaten away at the soul of America...

Quote from Specterx:

Morality? Crime is lower now than in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. We're less moral now than a hundred years ago? Ever read The Jungle?

Corruption? You think corruption in Washington and on Wall St. is worse now than in the 1920s?

Divorce, declining wages? All kinds of reasons for these - none of which have anything to do with an increase or decrease in religiosity. Take divorce: rising incomes and improvements in health care means women have 1-2 kids in their lifetimes instead of 8-10, which means they get jobs and do things besides raise children, which means divorce goes up.

70% of people in the Netherlands and Denmark do not believe in God. Are you saying the Netherlands and Denmark are dysfunctional societies?

 

[stu]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

The Netherlands and Denmark are not America, are they?

Yes, there is much more corruption today in nearly every institution than every before.

Why is that?

A couple of reasons. The rise of atheistic theism, and the lack of punishment for those who do sin.

Gradually over time, as the mores of real Christianity and Judaism were replaced with atheistic secularism, it became okay to engage in immoral behaviors, it became okay to get a divorce, it became okay to cheat on your taxes, it became okay not to keep your word, it became okay to lie, etc. It became okay to be greedy, it became okay to not enforce the laws of immigration, it became okay to flaunt excess, etc.

I am not preaching some specific moral code, but it is obvious that the average American is less moral than 50 years ago.

America is not as safe a place as it used to be 50 years ago. 50 years ago people felt relatively safe to hitchhike across America, to allow their kids to walk home from school, etc.

Are crime rates really down if we factor in the crime that goes unpunished? Think of all the white collar crime, think of the unreported crime...

Really, society has degraded dramatically in the past 50 years on the whole.

This is due to a fear of the consequences of behavior that was previously considered sinful and punishable, but is now considered okay...

Look, you really think in the 60's that Tiger Woods if caught in his behaviors would be given a chance to come back after what he has done?

You think in the 60's a president who lied about his behavior with an intern would skate?

You think that the levels of excess and greed would be glorified the way they are now?

This change in mores is due to the decline in the moral values of previous generations, and the rise of atheistic science pushers who claim men are from monkeys, that there is no such thing as sin, that it is okay to do your own thing without concern for your fellow man, etc.

The rise of the "me generation."

http://books.google.com/books?id=tV...resnum=4&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Just look at the number of people on anti depressants, etc.

Life is better now than 50 years ago?

By what measure? By being able to keep people alive through science longer than nature intended?

America has degraded dramatically in just two generations...and at the forefront is atheistic science...

By the way, I am not talking about the false religiosity we see in America today, I am talking about good-hearted, God fearing American people who have devolved into a greedy, self absorbed hedonistic society that mirrors Rome as they began to decline from the initial virtues of the great Greek philosophers who influence Roman society...

p.s. Norway and Denmark have a social conscience, atheistic science and destruction of what is in the best interest of society as a consequence of minimizing moral behavior (which was founded in religious belief and fear of consequence of sin) and emphasizing materialism over a genuine spiritual life have eaten away at the soul of America...

Ah yes, 50 years ago women were prettier, music was real music , it was always sunny and the grass was greener . Medicine was better, technology and living standards too.
And it was thanks to everyone fearing an almighty imaginary God goblin.


You are talking about fear as a reason for being good-hearted. I doubt people are truly good hearted with fear in their heart.
Perhaps fear, no worse, a superstitious fear, is why God fearing American people will devolve into a greedy, self absorbed hedonistic society, the way you say.

However, the great pre-Socratic classic Greek philosophers rejected mythological explanations and purposely developed their initial virtues regardless of the Gods. Specifically not being influenced because of them , Aristotle and Diogenes give account of that also. So it was atheism which gave first light to standards of morality.

Theism merely claims rights to fundamental understandings, but is not required for ascertainment of them.


Fearing consequences as a reason for being good-hearted, could not be as worthy as good-heartedness without a fear of Gods , without the fear of consequences, without conditions, without religion, but for its own sake.

It appears a fear of God is the problem for what you state is going wrong in America, not a remedy.

 

[Gabfly1]

Quote from FeenixRizin:

I'd being willing to bet every cent I make from now until I die that the principles of Intelligent Design will eventually be adopted and supercede...

Billy, shouldn't you be inhabiting a hill somewhere?

 

[OPTIONAL777]

It is not that atheism couldn't produce a society of moral people, it is merely the fact that it has not done so...an atheistic society based on Buddhist principles would show much less materialism, sin, and corruption...because of the belief that living a good, honest, and moderate life not revolving around materialism and hedonism is part of the Buddhist philosophy...and yes, Buddhists are atheists.

The decline in morality and prosperity...the overall quality of life in America for the average person is concurrent with the rise of scientific atheism, materialism and the average person losing their fear of the consequences of sin. The in name only Christians practice greed and sin, all the while rationalizing that they are "sinners" and that it doesn't matter because Jesus will save them anyway...they have no real incentive to practice the principles as laid out by Jesus. Jews the same thing...they rationalize breaking the laws of Moses for similar reasons.

You could say that the leadership of America has always been corrupt, however the followers weren't as much so...the followers believed they would be rewarded (or at least not punished) if they were to follow a moral code. The moral code just happened to be the product of the dominate religions of Christianity and Judaism. It could have been the product of Buddhism if that were the dominant belief system of the Pilgrims and others.

This change in the average person being God fearing and good- hearted to what we see today is not in doubt...it is obvious.

Think you would find the levels of greed, corruption, excess, and practice of the 7 deadly sins in an Amish or Mennonite community?

Hell, it would be fantastic if the scientific atheistic movement produced a better person, but the data doesn't support that at all...

Quote from stu:

Ah yes, 50 years ago women were prettier, music was real music , it was always sunny and the grass was greener . Medicine was better, technology and living standards too.
And it was thanks to everyone fearing an almighty imaginary God goblin.


You are talking about fear as a reason for being good-hearted. I doubt people are truly good hearted with fear in their heart.
Perhaps fear, no worse, a superstitious fear, is why God fearing American people will devolve into a greedy, self absorbed hedonistic society, the way you say.

However, the great pre-Socratic classic Greek philosophers rejected mythological explanations and purposely developed their initial virtues regardless of the Gods. Specifically not being influenced because of them , Aristotle and Diogenes give account of that also. So it was atheism which gave first light to standards of morality.

Theism merely claims rights to fundamental understandings, but is not required for ascertainment of them.


Fearing consequences as a reason for being good-hearted, could not be as worthy as good-heartedness without a fear of Gods , without the fear of consequences, without conditions, without religion, but for its own sake.

It appears a fear of God is the problem for what you state is going wrong in America, not a remedy.

 

[Ricter]

Is Buddhism atheistic? I thought I read once that the Buddha, when asked about the existence of God simply shrugged, as in "I don't know". Would he be properly called an agnostic?

 

[OPTIONAL777]

In the broader sense, Buddhism is atheistic in its practices.

It is one thing to believe in God, and another to believe that God is immaterial to the practice of Buddhism.

I don't find the Buddhists to be angry at God like the failed theists who have an axe to grind against God, but Buddhism is not a theistic philosophy or practice.

There are writings in India that suggest that Buddha was a direct descension of God, but even so the Buddhists don't pray to Buddha to help and guide them in their path toward liberation.

Quote from Ricter:

Is Buddhism atheistic? I thought I read once that the Buddha, when asked about the existence of God simply shrugged, as in "I don't know". Would he be properly called an agnostic?

 

[Gabfly1]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

...ET is filled with dumbed down atheists who have no real understanding of science...the proof is when you ask them important scientific questions, they will refer you to a youtube video for the answers to the questions...

Whereas a theist need only close his eyes and b-e-l-i-e-v-e. It seems you hold the two groups to a different standard. And it is evident right here in these forums that, on balance, the theists have a far more perverted understanding of science than do the non-theists. They also have a penchant for claiming some of history's great minds as among their own either by outright false attribution or quotes taken entirely and laughably out of context.

Few of us here are scientists. We do not need to become actual scientists in order to form our views and beliefs about the world. Rather, we can weigh the alternatives and then decide to either go with the views of highly educated, intelligent people with a history of accomplishment in the sciences, or with the chanting fellow in the fancy robes. A nodding acquaintance with a few of the essential facts can be enough for our purposes in this regard. This is not to say that various forms of philosophy don't have their place in this world. However, I am less inclined to side with the fellow who looks inward for answers regarding the physical world. I may or may not seek guidance from such a person on coping with the problems of everyday life or attaining happiness. But I'd rather attend a science class to get a better handle on the cutting edge thinking regarding the origin of life itself.

And as NeoRio1 adroitly pointed out earlier, you're commenting on the fans rather than on the performance of the team itself. (Non sequitur.)

 

[fhl]

Quote from Gabfly1: I may or may not seek guidance from such a person on coping with the problems of everyday life or attaining happiness. But I'd rather attend a science class to get a better handle on the cutting edge thinking regarding the origin of life itself.

[/B]

When you seek guidance from from a religious person, you can look right to the source of the subject matter he is quoting from and see for yourself if it is in context and makes sense.

When you attend a science class and seek cutting edge thinking, you have no way of knowing if the data has been manipulated, destroyed, kept hidden from freedom of information acts, kept out of the hands of skeptics, only confirmed by those who were agreeable in advance, etc. This is the great lesson of AGW.

 

[stu]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

In the broader sense, Buddhism is atheistic in its practices.

It is one thing to believe in God, and another to believe that God is immaterial to the practice of Buddhism.

I don't find the Buddhists to be angry at God like the failed theists who have an axe to grind against God, but Buddhism is not a theistic philosophy or practice.

There are writings in India that suggest that Buddha was a direct descension of God, but even so the Buddhists don't pray to Buddha to help and guide them in their path toward liberation.

You don't have to be angry or fear imaginary beings or be a Budhist to do good or to be good-hearted.
Goodness is of itself, so religion is surperfluous, and is often seen as not beneficial to bringing good about.