Why do atheist's fear God?

[Zero Sum]

It is quite possible but not yet sure, that gravity has a similar mediator. Remember gravitons?

How can gravity be a "creator" of something out of nothing, if gravity's existence is conditional on something (like a particle)?

Also how can gravity be a "fine tuner" of everything (including the particle it supposedly comes from), if gravity's existence is conditional on something (like the particle it supposedly comes from)? That's like a brain surgeon doing surgery on his own brain--especially the part of his brain that controls his own hands that are doing the operating on himself.

Basically the position is simple.
Many questions about gravity are not impossible to answer but where they are, there is already lots of evidence to suggest likely answers. They may always become more fully answered from scientific discovery, as is always the case.

On the other hand, the questions you say are impossible to answer are not possible because they are pointless. Quite frankly, anyone can easily make up those kind of impossible to answer, pointless questions.

Then answer these two questions I asked above, if as you say there are likely answers.

How can gravity be a "creator" of something out of nothing, if gravity's existence is conditional on something (like a particle)?

Also how can gravity be a "fine tuner" of everything (including the particle it supposedly comes from), if gravity's existence is conditional on something (like the particle it supposedly comes from)? That's like a brain surgeon doing surgery on his own brain--especially the part of his brain that controls his own hands that are doing the operating on himself.

Let me ask you a question.
Do you even know why you keep referring to those same pointless questions which you have already concluded are impossible to answer? Do you assume impossible to answer pointless questions have some kind of a greater value than sensible ones? Like scientific ones?

I already answered why I ask those questions on the second post I made on this thread.

"Do you even know why you keep referring...?" Of course I do, that bit of rhetoric you are employing smells like superior baloney talk meant to imply a superior intellectual position even when that position has not been proven.

So, you can't answer logical questions, and have to resort to saying they are "pointless" and that "frankly, anyone can easily make up those kind of impossible to answer, pointless questions."

There are two points I'm making here:

1.) The premiss that science can answer how something comes from nothing is erroneous based on the fact that the logical questions I asked can never be answered.
Explain how the "Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle" creates or helps gravity create something out of nothing?

Earlier you said "start with the Heisenberg uncertainty principle", but then you don't explain further.
So let's say that you know more about physics than I do, then explain to me what exactly the "Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle" is, and how the "Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle" creates by itself or helps gravity (or any force or the "borrowed energy" you mentioned earlier) create something out of nothing?

2.) Science can't answer certain logical questions.

 

[stu]

How can gravity be a "creator" of something out of nothing, if gravity's existence is conditional on something (like a particle)?

Also how can gravity be a "fine tuner" of everything (including the particle it supposedly comes from), if gravity's existence is conditional on something (like the particle it supposedly comes from)? That's like a brain surgeon doing surgery on his own brain--

You keep making inappropriate metaphors. Last time it was paper clips which had little if anything to do with things. Now it's brain surgery!

If you like metaphors so much, a more appropriate one might be to ask yourself how an egg can create a chicken when you need a chicken to create an egg.
Understanding the science behind a chicken and an egg will explain a lot more than anything can.

So, you can't answer logical questions

How many more times? Those questions you raised are more pointless than logical.

There are two points I'm making here:

1.) The premiss that science can answer how something comes from nothing is erroneous based on the fact that the logical questions I asked can never be answered.

What you're really saying there is, science doesn't work because you asked some pointless questions.

Explain how the "Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle" creates or helps gravity create something out of nothing?

Earlier you said "start with the Heisenberg uncertainty principle", but then you don't explain further.

I'm not here to give you science lessons dude! Anyway the internet is a wonderful place for gleaning information.

Were you really interested in understanding the physics and even some philosophical ideas about how the universe can come from nothing , you could start at Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle as I mentioned.
That was my simple straightforward suggestion to you and for doing that, you accuse me of "superior baloney talk".

That you've quite clearly made no attempt to understand speaks more to how you want to just hold your own set conclusions about pretty much everything on the topic.

2.) Science can't answer certain logical questions.

Certain logical questions are pointless questions that have no scientific merit.

I've responded to the points you've raised, then you don't expand but ignore my response, just to keep circling around the same pointless point about those pointless questions.

It's an interesting subject but like Jem you easily veer into making pointless remarks and confused sidetracks.
Maybe get back to me when you have something more than "science doesn't know everything".

 

[Zero Sum]

You keep making inappropriate metaphors. Last time it was paper clips which had little if anything to do with things. Now it's brain surgery!

If you like metaphors so much, a more appropriate one might be to ask yourself how an egg can create a chicken when you need a chicken to create an egg.
Understanding the science behind a chicken and an egg will explain a lot more than anything can.



How many more times? Those questions you raised are more pointless than logical.



What you're really saying there is, science doesn't work because you asked some pointless questions.



I'm not here to give you science lessons dude! Anyway the internet is a wonderful place for gleaning information.

Were you really interested in understanding the physics and even some philosophical ideas about how the universe can come from nothing , you could start at Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle as I mentioned.
That was my simple straightforward suggestion to you and for doing that, you accuse me of "superior baloney talk".

That you've quite clearly made no attempt to understand speaks more to how you want to just hold your own set conclusions about pretty much everything on the topic.



Certain logical questions are pointless questions that have no scientific merit.

I've responded to the points you've raised, then you don't expand but ignore my response, just to keep circling around the same pointless point about those pointless questions.

It's an interesting subject but like Jem you easily veer into making pointless remarks and confused sidetracks.
Maybe get back to me when you have something more than "science doesn't know everything".

That is just more superior baloney talk meant to make it seem that you know what you are talking about, when you really don't.

Logical questions aren't pointless, you just use the "pointless" excuse to avoid answering them.

You keep saying "science" but it's all just baloney about how you know better than me.

Well if you know better than me then, explain the "uncertainty principle" and how it helps create something out of nothing...that baloney you said earlier: "start with the Heisenberg uncertainty principle" is just baloney meant to imply some deeper science, but you don't want to explain because it is really just a ruse.

I had heard about the "uncertainty principle" (or Heisenberg's uncertainty principle) many years ago, and I also looked at the Wikipedia article when I started posting on this thread.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

I just wanted to see if you actually had some scientific explanation of how the "uncertainty principle" could help create something out of nothing, but now that you refuse to explain further...you realize it all just smells like bullshit.

Do you even know what the "uncertainty principle" is about without looking at the Wikipedia article first? I smelled bullshit from the first moment you said "start with the Heisenberg uncertainty principle" because it has to do with the uncertainty of measuring the physical properties of particles, and that doesn't seem like it has anything to do with how to create something out of nothing. If I'm wrong, then present your scientific explanations and personal theories about it...unless of course it was all just bullshit baloney talk meant to make it seem like you had an explanation, when you really had nothing.

 

[stu]

Logical questions aren't pointless, you just use the "pointless" excuse to avoid answering them.

If you think a logical question cannot be a pointless question, then you've already put yourself at an illogical disadvantage for understanding logic.

I just wanted to see

Nah you didn't. It's clear, you just want to reject everything being said to you unless it fits with your pre-conclusions.

 

[Zero Sum]

You can't explain how Heisenberg's uncertainty principle helps create something out of nothing, you probably never knew what it was about in the first place.

You have nothing.

It was all just bullshit.

 

[stu]

I said, more than once now, it's a starting point for you.
It will help explain something from nothing.

Unless you don't want it to, which apparently is the case.

 

[Zero Sum]

Your starting point stinks like shit...

Let's see you pick some diamonds out of that pile of shit...by elaborating on your shitty starting point.

Wait, you do know what elaborating means don't you?

 

[stu]

How come the subject of something from nothing makes you so angry

 

[Zero Sum]

Peace bro.

I'm cool.

 

[jimmiebarton]

SCIENCE answers questions!