Why do atheist's fear God?

If you were the creator, what type of people would you reward with eternal bliss? (Most of you will say what you really are, obedient ignorant morons.)


Like string theory, fine tuning is the new craze to get published. Tomorrow will be another publishing topic that no one really believes.
 
perhaps convertibility... accept the fine tuning was proven at CERN when they used the standard model of physics with its constants tuned to 22 decimal places or more to find the higgs boson.

perhaps they will find some other explanation... but that explanation might be the fact that it all had to be this way. (the elusive Theory of Everything)

which again would that not likely makes us wonder why tuned for life? (by the way that is not my thought... that is the thought of leading scientists in the field. The TOE is not likely to make the Tuner go away.)

the other explanation... the multiverse... and that gravity shaped our universe takes just as much faith as Tuner if not more. We still have not yet found any proof of other universes... and string theory math is just the potential for other solutions its does not mean those solutions exist.
 
If physics were based on faith, it wouldn't be physics. It would be religion.
And faith is how phrases like 'fine tuning of the universe' became just another religious straw in the wind.
 
lets deal in fact, not your lies and misdirections...stu

the fine tuning of the standard model was confirmed when the scientists at CERN found the higgs boson as predicted by the model.

for instance the cosmological constant is tuned to over 120 decimal places... a very tiny bit stronger or weaker and the universe crunches or flys apart.

the extreme tuning of the cosmological constant is just one example to how finely tuned our universe is.
the tuning is not faith based... its observed by science and proven at CERN.






If physics were based on faith, it wouldn't be physics. It would be religion.
And faith is how phrases like 'fine tuning of the universe' became just another religious straw in the wind.
 
lets deal in fact, not your lies and misdirections...stu

the fine tuning of the standard model was confirmed when the scientists at CERN found the higgs boson as predicted by the model.

for instance the cosmological constant is tuned to over 120 decimal places... a very tiny bit stronger or weaker and the universe crunches or flys apart.

the extreme tuning of the cosmological constant is just one example to how finely tuned our universe is.
the tuning is not faith based... its observed by science and proven at CERN.


You have no science showing that the earth was fine tuned.
 
To create a Universe, God is not required. To create God, a Universe is required.
for piezoe... here is a place to start...


http://web.mit.edu/rog/www/papers/does_origins.pdf

We now know that the probability of life arising by chance is far too low to
be plausible, hence there must be some deeper explanation that we are yet to
discover, given which the origin of life is atleastreasonably likely. Perhaps we
have little idea yet what form this explanation will take—although of course it
will not appeal to the work of a rational agent; this is would be a desperate
last resort, if an option at all—but we have every reason to look for such an
explanation, for we have every reason to think there is one.
In a detailed survey of the field, Iris Fry (1995, 2000) argues that although
the disagreements among origin of life theorists run very deep, relating to the
most basic features of the models they propose, the view sketched above is a
fundamental unifying assumption (one which Fry strongly endorses). Some
researchers in the field are even more optimistic of course. They believe that
they have already found the explanation, or at least have a good head start
on it. But their commitment to the thesis above is epistemically more basic,
in the sense that it motivated their research in the first place and even if their
theories were shown to be false, they would retain this basic assumption.
3
There is a very small group of detractors, whom Fry (1995) calls the “Almosta Miracle Camp” including Francis Crick (1981), ErnstMayr (1982),
and Jaques Monod (1974), who appear to be content with the idea that life
arose by chance even if the probability of this happening is extremely low.
4
According to Crick “the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a
miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to been satisfied
to get it going” (1981: 88); the emergence of life was nevertheless a “happy
accident” (p. 14).
5
According to Mayr, “a full realization of the near impossibility of an origin of life brings home the point of how improbable this
event was.” (1982: 45). Monod famously claimed that although the probability of life arising by chance was “virtually zero. . .our number came up in the
Monte Carlo game” (1974: 137). Life, as Monod puts it, is “chance caught
on a wing” (p. 78). That is, although natural selection took over early to produce the diversity of life, its origin was nothing but an incredibly improbable
fluke.Does Origins of Life Research Rest on a Mistake? 459
However, the vast majority of experts in the field clearly define their work
in opposition to this view. The more common attitude is summed up neatly
by J. D. Bernal.
[T]he question, could life have originated by a chance occurrence of atoms,
clearly leads to a negative answer. This answer, combined with the knowledge
that life is actually here, leads to the conclusion that some sequences other than
chance occurrences must have led to the appearances of life. (quoted in Fry 2000:
153)
Having calculated the staggering improbability of life’s emergence by chance,
Manfred Eigen (1992) concludes,
The genes found today cannot have arisen randomly, as it were by the throw of
a dice. There must exist a process of optimization that works toward functional
efficiency. Even if there are several routes to optimal efficiency, mere trial and
error cannotbe one of them. (p. 11)
It is from this conclusion that Eigen motivates his search for a physical principle that does not leave the emergence of life up to blind chance, hence
making itreproducible in principle:
The physical principle that we are looking for should be in a position to explain
the complexity typical of the phenomena of life at the level of molecular structures and syntheses. It should show how such complex molecular arrangements
are able to form reproducibly in Nature. (p. 11)
According to Christian de Duve (1991),
. . .unless one adopts a creationist view,. . .life arose through the succession of an
enormous number of small steps, almost each of which, given the condition at
the time had a very high probability of happening. . .the alternative amounts to
a miracle. . .were [the emergence of life] not an obligatory manifestation of the
combinatorial properties of matter, it could not possibly have arisen naturally.
(p. 217)
Not all theorists follow De Duve so far as suggesting that life’s emergence
mustbe inevitable. While nota specialistin the area, Richard Dawkins (1987)
captures the attitude that appears to dominate scientific research into life’s
origin. According to Dawkins,
All who have given thought to the matter agree that an apparatus as complex as
the human eye could not possibly come into existence through [a single chance
event]. Unfortunately the same seems to be true of at least parts of the apparatus
of cellular machinery whereby DNA replicates itself (p. 140)460 NOUS ˆ
In considering how the first self-replicating machinery arose, Dawkins asks
“Whatis the largestsingle eventof sheer naked coincidence, sheer unadulterated miraculous luck, that we are allowed to get away with in our theories,
and still say that we have a satisfactory explanation of life?” (p. 141) And
he answers that there are strict limits on the “ration of luck” that we are
allowed to postulate in our theories.
6
According to Dawkins, an examination
of the immense complexity of the most basic mechanisms required for DNA
replication is sufficient to see that any theory which makes its existence a
highly improbable fluke is unbelievable, quite apart from what alternative
explanations are on the table


http://web.mit.edu/rog/www/papers/does_origins.pdf
Thank you, but I am of course familiar with all of the above. There are always elements of chance of course, but as I said, the laws of physics and chemistry are highly restrictive and determine what is possible and what isn't and statistical encounters are subject to these same laws. That's in fact why all life forms are based on carbon! I am quite in agreement with Dawkins and the others. There is "fine tuning" in nature everywhere we look, not just in the cosmos! I don't want to waste time on ideas that are not only non-falsifiable but are also at odds with what we have learned already.
 
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lets deal in fact, not your lies and misdirections...stu

the fine tuning of the standard model was confirmed when the scientists at CERN found the higgs boson as predicted by the model.

for instance the cosmological constant is tuned to over 120 decimal places... a very tiny bit stronger or weaker and the universe crunches or flys apart.

the extreme tuning of the cosmological constant is just one example to how finely tuned our universe is.
the tuning is not faith based... its observed by science and proven at CERN.

The fact is you're talking utter nonsense. No fine tuning has been confirmed at CERN or anywhere else.

To dispel fine tuning, the universe need only be constrained by its fundamental properties causing it to form in the way it has. Same for life itself.

Incomplete information offers only an appearance of fine tuning, but there is a wish for fine tuning from some religious people like yourself, who will say anything while grasping for their personal Tuner.
 
There is "fine tuning" in nature everywhere we look, not just in the cosmos!
In general terms, a naturalistic "fine tuning". Scientifically, in a word.... evolution. In nature and everywhere we look.
 
Yes. Life is apparently inevitable, given the conditions that exist on our planet. If that's true, and I have no reason to think it isn't, then life, very similar to what exists on Earth, exists on billions, perhaps more, of other planets of similar age, composition, and position in their respective solar systems. It will all be based on carbon, and the same elements that we find on Earth will be the same chemical elements forming, existing, and disappearing everywhere else in Universe. It would be statistically impossible for our planet to be unique.
 
non falsifiable... what about scientists at CERN using the very finely tuned standard model of physics to find a higgs boson is non falsifiable.
I am flabbergasted at your blockage.

but maybe not...

I understand lots of smart people don't want to examine ideas which conflict with their weltanschauung. for some reason it hurts many people educated in 1950s random chance thinking to realize our universe appears very finely tuned.

Here is one of the smartest guys in the world in math and science telling you of the extreme fine tuning. I have linked to the math he used here in the past.







Thank you, but I am of course familiar with all of the above. There are always elements of chance of course, but as I said, the laws of physics and chemistry are highly restrictive and determine what is possible and what isn't and statistical encounters are subject to these same laws. That's in fact why all life forms are based on carbon! I am quite in agreement with Dawkins and the others. There is "fine tuning" in nature everywhere we look, not just in the cosmos! I don't want to waste time on ideas that are not only non-falsifiable but are also at odds with what we have learned already.
 
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